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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg the para Casas

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brought to you by audible.com the

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internet's leading provider of

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audiobooks with more than 100,000

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downloadable titles across all types of

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literature including fiction nonfiction

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and periodicals for a free audio book of

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your choice

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go to audiblepodcast.com/tekzilla fo

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conventions where they hire some zany

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people to be the speakers and they kind

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of put the more responsible speakers

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aside and at least if the evidence of

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the past's Conference of the

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International UFO conference is any

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indication well the people don't care

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for that sort of thing well I wouldn't

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go that far there's plenty of true

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believers out there that just will lap

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up any apple sauce that you put in front

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of them if it conforms to their pre

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program sort of front-loaded reality

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views so no you know there I'm sure

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there were a lot of people thought it

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was the greatest thing that they ever

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experienced since the invention of

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sliced bread but for people that are a

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bit more up to speed a little bit more

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skeptical and discerning have a little

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bit more of I think an understanding of

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the complexities and how complicated

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this whole subject is I think they were

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a little disappointed but again open

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minds puts on a really good event they

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spare no expense on the location and I

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just wish that they'd try to take the

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high road when it comes to the to the

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quality of the speaker's uh again I

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really did thought the inclusion of

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rosemary Kiley was a real good one of

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course Antonia was always just a

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pleasure to listen to he's an amazing

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historian he's one of the I guess

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undiscovered treasures in the UFO field

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a lot of people don't hear of him except

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for that magazine the stuff he did with

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Tim Beckley and his appearances on the

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power cast he's one of those people who

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doesn't really get his due yeah in

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rosemary Kiley - she doesn't go around

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promoting herself she's very low-profile

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she

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not in it for ego purposes it's a career

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for her I mean she is definitely a

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professional writer but talk about a

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woman who really knows how to go out in

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the field interact with people and then

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and then come back and present that

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information and either book or

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conference form there were enough of

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those types of guts of course the the

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first appearance of the Chilean general

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who the head of the UFO death down there

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in Chile I mean there were some bright

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spots but you know you know I mean I

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can't really I can't complain too loudly

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I mean you know we won a couple of EB

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Awards so I should be extolling their

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virtues but you know last year at least

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there were some real cutting-edge

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presenters you know there were more

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cutting-edge presenters than not this

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year was the other way around well in

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the end you wonder here the image of the

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UFO feel I think that's the biggest

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thing it's not that someone who sponsors

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a UFO conference is not entitled to earn

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back your investment and make a few

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dollars for their at work you know no

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one's going to begrudge that these are

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not nonprofit corporations and even a

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nonprofit corporation they've got

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expensive they got salaries they've got

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fly in all these presenters they have to

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pay for hotel rooms it's not a cheap

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thing to do and take it from me as you

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know Chris I did this once years ago I

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only took a $100 bath today at today's

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exchange rates maybe will be a to me or

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$300 bath was done on the X conferences

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over the years yeah I gather he's taken

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a big Lawson Oh big time he had

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thousands and thousands of dollars so

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how is he survived does he have a day

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job I don't know maybe we should ask his

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handlers this is something we speculated

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upon some years back on the power cast

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when we had one I guess semi unfortunate

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encounter with Steve Bassett where he

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kind of went off on us when we

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challenged him about putting speakers on

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the podium who were not vetted because

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maybe they dragged a crowded well under

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saying the same thing I think with

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Steven Greer of course you know the

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majority of his disclosure witnesses

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were very very believable and they had

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track records but then salted in there

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were a few that you just had to scratch

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your head and go Steven what were you

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thinking getting these people up there

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so I mean it's the Wild West this is a

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protostar

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typically there's no standards there's

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no you know anybody can just hang

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themselves out there and call themselves

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an expert and go around and gather

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anonymous witnesses and and keep

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contributing to the ever-growing myth

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that surrounds this whole field and it's

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wrought with disinformation its wrought

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with misinformation and you just have

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listen to shows like the para cast to

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help fine tune and hone your BS meter

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and you know and just you know kind of

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do your research I keep saying that

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sound like a broken record I know but I

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know everybody doesn't have the time of

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the inclination to do that they just

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want to believe so you know just be

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careful that you believe it kool-aid it

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circulates out there right and the other

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problem is here you wonder here you have

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all these despair a few points you have

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people who are going on those lecture

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tours they're appearing on radio and TV

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and they don't have anything to offer

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other than some fanciful story and of

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course the conspiracy theorists amongst

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you will say hey maybe their government

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plants I think it's just people looking

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for 15 minutes of fame and this is the

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reality show of another color you know

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right now it shows a big you know they

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think they're gonna make a million

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dollars right in the book on UFOs or

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something when we're losing readers left

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and right every day I know that one of

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my favorite books of all time was

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shockingly close to the truth which was

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kind of a semi autobiographical book

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co-authored by Jim Mosely predominantly

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Jim with the late Carl Froch and the

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thing about this book is that I know the

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numbers and I won't reveal them it's as

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they say it's Jim's business his

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co-authors business not anyone elses the

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numbers were pathetic I used to write

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books on how to use the Apple iMac and

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I'd make more money from that I'm actin

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well by well now of course you know

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Apple owns the planet yeah you know we

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understand that was company in the world

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two years running now that's right what

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do you think of that new little new

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little iPad that looks pretty odd we

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have a discussion event on of course the

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tech night our live but the most

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interesting thing

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about it is that you have this display

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with over three million pixels this is

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this Retina display double works

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actually four times the figures are

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doubled

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therefore you multiply them by each

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other you get four times the resolution

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of the current model and we had one of

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our readers over at the tec-9 al comm

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look at the numbers for other people's

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selling displays with 3.1 million pixels

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and he found figures like two thousand

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dollars right now Apple sells the new

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iPad or the iPad free whatever you want

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to call it for $499 up so the basic

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model is $4.99 and you have this display

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it's the same price as last year's model

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with a display of one quarter of the

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pixels also $4.99 they did a teardown

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and they estimated Apple is paying $70

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for each one of those displays and you

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have to think here does Apple have some

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kind of alien technology maybe the

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technology that we recovered from

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Roswell was secret it into the hands of

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Steve Jobs back in the 1970s when Apple

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was first founded and over the years

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they've tried to reverse engineer that

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technology an apple Apple is now

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funneled it out to their suppliers

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because it's going to take a long time

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for any other company to build a display

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for a tablet computer with over three

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million pixels in it yep that's amazing

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well they could do it you know they've

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they got the umph they got the juice

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well they better have good production

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because the in two days they sold out

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there on line allocation and people are

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talking about maybe four or five million

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copies the first month maybe 50 million

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for the year oh man I should have jumped

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into Apple stock back in the eighties oh

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if I bought Apple stock at $10 a share

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and I was a journalist you know I was

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trying to be honest forthright trying to

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be responsible to my profession cuz I

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never bought stock of the companies I

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covered what a mistake no mistake today

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my friend Curt southerly is joining us

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and Curt sent me a letter several weeks

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ago and says you know one person

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talked about we talked about the Maury

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Allen case real or fanciful but we don't

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talk about one of the people who was

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involved in the investigation and that

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is possibly the original UFO pioneer

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himself which was Kenneth Arnold you

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know you know the legend nine disk

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shaped objects over Mount Rainier in the

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state of Washington you know near your

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stamping grounds Chris and we don't talk

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about him very much but if he didn't

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report that sighting if the media didn't

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pick him up on it and say flying saucers

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where would UFO research be today we'll

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talk about Kenneth Arnold Maury island

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and more with Curt southerly coming up

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next on Eric as you know the power cast

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is brought to you by audible.com the

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go to audible podcast.com slash para

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00:10:30,290 --> 00:10:27,839
cast that's audible podcast.com slash

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para cast you know we develop trust in

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the people we know but we don't really

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314
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325
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326
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348
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349
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350
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four no tax listening to the parrot my

351
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:15,630
old friend Curt southerly has been

352
00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:18,930
investigating UFOs for many years

353
00:14:24,170 --> 00:14:22,649
waiting back I guess to the 70s and I as

354
00:14:26,180 --> 00:14:24,180
an older person had been around the

355
00:14:28,460 --> 00:14:26,190
field for quite a bit of years myself

356
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:28,470
that curtain as a reporter a real

357
00:14:34,009 --> 00:14:31,170
reporter has done a lot of the legwork

358
00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:34,019
that's required in investigating these

359
00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:35,490
things not just sitting back and reading

360
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:37,290
books but calling people going on the

361
00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:40,050
scene etc etc Curt welcome back to the

362
00:14:44,210 --> 00:14:42,060
power cast no it's good to be back

363
00:14:46,670 --> 00:14:44,220
Jeanne I wanted to ask you about the

364
00:14:50,269 --> 00:14:46,680
topic of our discussion we hear the

365
00:14:54,710 --> 00:14:50,279
legend a businessman sees nine disk

366
00:14:58,009 --> 00:14:54,720
shaped objects June 24 1947 his name is

367
00:15:00,800 --> 00:14:58,019
Kenneth Arnold and we hear about that we

368
00:15:02,629 --> 00:15:00,810
think about the impact but we don't know

369
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:02,639
too much about the man or maybe his

370
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:05,040
connection to the Morrie Island mystery

371
00:15:10,430 --> 00:15:07,290
tell us who was Kenneth Arnold Oh

372
00:15:13,460 --> 00:15:10,440
Kenneth Arnold was at the time of his I

373
00:15:16,550 --> 00:15:13,470
guess you would say infamous June 24

374
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:16,560
1947 sighting he was 28 years old he was

375
00:15:24,380 --> 00:15:20,399
28 years old and June 24 1947 which was

376
00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:24,390
the day that he made his famous sighting

377
00:15:30,740 --> 00:15:26,730
of nine flying objects in the vicinity

378
00:15:33,050 --> 00:15:30,750
of nonlinear in Washington State and I

379
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:33,060
guess the most most of your listeners

380
00:15:37,490 --> 00:15:34,410
had probably heard a little bit about

381
00:15:41,809 --> 00:15:37,500
Arnold but they probably don't know a

382
00:15:46,309 --> 00:15:41,819
lot about the man himself he was he was

383
00:15:49,610 --> 00:15:46,319
your prototypical American patriot he

384
00:15:54,470 --> 00:15:49,620
was a youngster he had been an Eagle boy

385
00:15:56,540 --> 00:15:54,480
scout he was an all-state football

386
00:15:58,819 --> 00:15:56,550
player and I guess he had intentions of

387
00:16:00,139 --> 00:15:58,829
becoming going pro when he got older and

388
00:16:04,090 --> 00:16:00,149
there was some kind of a knee injury so

389
00:16:08,689 --> 00:16:04,100
that prevented that he was a world-class

390
00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:08,699
swimmer and board diver essentially he

391
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:09,839
was almost Olympic level

392
00:16:17,230 --> 00:16:13,290
he was an aerial aircraft pilot he had a

393
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:17,240
private private pilot's license he was a

394
00:16:25,519 --> 00:16:21,930
deputy sheriff's deputy sheriff I'm the

395
00:16:30,620 --> 00:16:25,529
state of idle I know he often times food

396
00:16:34,939 --> 00:16:30,630
prisoners to holding holding facilities

397
00:16:38,569 --> 00:16:34,949
in two different different incarceration

398
00:16:41,379 --> 00:16:38,579
areas oh geez oh he did so many things I

399
00:16:46,370 --> 00:16:41,389
mean he was his professionally he was

400
00:16:50,449 --> 00:16:46,380
the seller he meets a salesman for all

401
00:16:53,059 --> 00:16:50,459
I'm trying to think of fire control

402
00:16:54,620 --> 00:16:53,069
equipment you have to excuse me some of

403
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:54,630
this is I'm dredging some of us up from

404
00:16:57,769 --> 00:16:55,920
the memory has been quite a long time

405
00:17:01,819 --> 00:16:57,779
since I've actually written about any of

406
00:17:03,500 --> 00:17:01,829
this but he he just he he was just an

407
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:03,510
all-around great guy and I was fortunate

408
00:17:07,340 --> 00:17:05,520
I was able to actually get a short

409
00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:07,350
telephone interview with the man about

410
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:10,650
about his experiences both in insofar as

411
00:17:17,390 --> 00:17:14,130
his sighting and later events that

412
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:17,400
occurred which no in Tacoma Washington

413
00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:19,530
events that are very much like something

414
00:17:24,770 --> 00:17:21,290
out of The X Files

415
00:17:26,120 --> 00:17:24,780
they're just I'm not sure would know

416
00:17:28,010 --> 00:17:26,130
what direction do you want to take this

417
00:17:29,870 --> 00:17:28,020
and where do you want to start let's

418
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:29,880
start with Kenneth Arnold's actual

419
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:32,250
sighting because that's where the word

420
00:17:38,380 --> 00:17:35,130
flying saucers came from but as I recall

421
00:17:40,220 --> 00:17:38,390
the actual objects he saw worn saucers

422
00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:40,230
well

423
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,150
apparently the lead object was different

424
00:17:46,909 --> 00:17:44,640
the lead object was more of a crescent

425
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:46,919
shape or a flying wing shape the other

426
00:17:52,970 --> 00:17:51,090
objects apparently were discs like the

427
00:17:54,620 --> 00:17:52,980
fact that the lead object was different

428
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:54,630
with something he kind of held back from

429
00:17:59,120 --> 00:17:56,490
the media for a long period of time he

430
00:18:00,950 --> 00:17:59,130
didn't really just talk about that but

431
00:18:03,140 --> 00:18:00,960
the essentially the sighting occurred

432
00:18:06,169 --> 00:18:03,150
when he was he was on one of his

433
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:06,179
business trips he was heading for Hollis

434
00:18:11,930 --> 00:18:08,880
Washington State and he was flying his

435
00:18:15,350 --> 00:18:11,940
call air a to aircraft which was a small

436
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:15,360
single-engine aircraft and he decided to

437
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:18,690
divert from his flight path to look for

438
00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:23,970
a crash of the c-46 marine transport so

439
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:25,830
ever the hero here he's just trying to

440
00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:28,770
do something good well again he was he

441
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:30,650
was also part of a search-and-rescue

442
00:18:35,450 --> 00:18:33,570
team of fliers he knew the area knew the

443
00:18:37,460 --> 00:18:35,460
the area around Mount Rainier and the

444
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:37,470
and the mountains and around that area

445
00:18:41,539 --> 00:18:38,970
of like the back of his hand

446
00:18:43,430 --> 00:18:41,549
so in he decided he had a little extra

447
00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:43,440
time he thought well the crash had

448
00:18:46,940 --> 00:18:45,090
actually occurred the previous year

449
00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:46,950
there were I believe if I recall

450
00:18:51,260 --> 00:18:48,360
correctly that I think there were eight

451
00:18:53,150 --> 00:18:51,270
marine transports that were they were

452
00:18:55,220 --> 00:18:53,160
caught up in a heavy snowstorm one of

453
00:18:57,140 --> 00:18:55,230
them went down and disappeared and it

454
00:19:00,530 --> 00:18:57,150
was carrying quite a number of Marines

455
00:19:02,510 --> 00:19:00,540
on board D the military conducted a

456
00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:02,520
search for about two weeks they gave it

457
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:05,940
up the survivors of the the crashed of

458
00:19:11,060 --> 00:19:09,090
the missing people put a reward up I

459
00:19:13,150 --> 00:19:11,070
think they put up $5,000 and that was

460
00:19:15,530 --> 00:19:13,160
continuing the following summer and

461
00:19:17,060 --> 00:19:15,540
Arnold he really wasn't looking for the

462
00:19:18,620 --> 00:19:17,070
reward again here right he was just

463
00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:18,630
trying to do a good deed he thought well

464
00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:20,220
swing around see if I can spot this

465
00:19:25,070 --> 00:19:22,530
wreckage someplace he searched her

466
00:19:27,409 --> 00:19:25,080
awhile he didn't see anything he started

467
00:19:29,930 --> 00:19:27,419
back on his flight path and at that

468
00:19:31,850 --> 00:19:29,940
point something flashed off the the

469
00:19:34,970 --> 00:19:31,860
cockpit of his aircraft it was like a

470
00:19:36,620 --> 00:19:34,980
reflection from the sunlight and caught

471
00:19:39,260 --> 00:19:36,630
his attention then he saw another flash

472
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:39,270
and when he looked up the head about you

473
00:19:42,830 --> 00:19:41,010
figured about twenty three twenty four

474
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:42,840
miles in front of him in within the

475
00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:45,450
vicinity of Mount Rainier he saw these

476
00:19:49,610 --> 00:19:48,120
objects moving in single file or what

477
00:19:51,110 --> 00:19:49,620
they called Essure lawn formation and

478
00:19:54,049 --> 00:19:51,120
they were just sweeping in and out among

479
00:19:56,149 --> 00:19:54,059
the peaks and as the past

480
00:19:58,669 --> 00:19:56,159
behind a sub peak of Mount Rainier he

481
00:20:00,200 --> 00:19:58,679
was he knew the distance and he also

482
00:20:01,279 --> 00:20:00,210
knew the distance between the various

483
00:20:03,430 --> 00:20:01,289
peaks so he was able to calculate

484
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:03,440
roughly the speed they were traveling at

485
00:20:10,450 --> 00:20:06,210
the speed was incredible he estimated

486
00:20:13,310 --> 00:20:10,460
and he actually downplayed the the the

487
00:20:14,959 --> 00:20:13,320
estimated speed for the sake of of

488
00:20:18,889 --> 00:20:14,969
accuracy but he figured it was probably

489
00:20:21,589 --> 00:20:18,899
between 1200 and 1600 miles per hour now

490
00:20:23,330 --> 00:20:21,599
later that year in October of 1947 Chuck

491
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:23,340
Yeager broke the sound barrier in the

492
00:20:27,799 --> 00:20:26,159
bell x-1 rocket plane as the fastest any

493
00:20:29,690 --> 00:20:27,809
man had ever flown at that time and he

494
00:20:32,779 --> 00:20:29,700
was only traveling at 700 miles an hour

495
00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:32,789
so obviously these objects if Arnold's

496
00:20:38,209 --> 00:20:34,289
estimation of their speed was correct

497
00:20:41,889 --> 00:20:38,219
were far flying far in great access or

498
00:20:43,969 --> 00:20:41,899
and am I gonna say this in in

499
00:20:46,430 --> 00:20:43,979
tremendously faster than anything we had

500
00:20:48,019 --> 00:20:46,440
flown before and he had no idea what

501
00:20:51,889 --> 00:20:48,029
this was he just he saw these are

502
00:20:53,719 --> 00:20:51,899
objects they startled him he being a

503
00:20:55,129 --> 00:20:53,729
professional piloting we were careful he

504
00:20:57,369 --> 00:20:55,139
checked the surrounding area the only

505
00:20:59,779 --> 00:20:57,379
other aircraft within the vicinity was

506
00:21:01,789 --> 00:20:59,789
an airliner I believe that was again

507
00:21:03,709 --> 00:21:01,799
also to his port side or left side and

508
00:21:05,239 --> 00:21:03,719
that was trailing him by about 7 or 8

509
00:21:07,729 --> 00:21:05,249
miles but there was nothing else around

510
00:21:10,849 --> 00:21:07,739
now this kind of aircraft did it have

511
00:21:12,849 --> 00:21:10,859
instrumentation or what no II had

512
00:21:15,229 --> 00:21:12,859
limited instrumentation it was a small

513
00:21:17,570 --> 00:21:15,239
single-engine aircraft he was pretty

514
00:21:19,310 --> 00:21:17,580
much a seat-of-the-pants flyer and as

515
00:21:23,509 --> 00:21:19,320
you're talking about an area where we

516
00:21:25,579 --> 00:21:23,519
didn't have a lot of radio electronics I

517
00:21:26,930 --> 00:21:25,589
mean he had I don't tell you through

518
00:21:29,989 --> 00:21:26,940
that I think he had a radio on the

519
00:21:34,129 --> 00:21:29,999
aircraft he simply flew by compass

520
00:21:35,989 --> 00:21:34,139
headings by his a his observation on the

521
00:21:39,259 --> 00:21:35,999
ground so he couldn't call the control

522
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:39,269
tower and say we've got a problem no he

523
00:21:42,739 --> 00:21:41,369
wasn't able to contact anybody and let

524
00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:42,749
them know that there was something out

525
00:21:48,139 --> 00:21:45,089
there he just continued on to his next

526
00:21:49,579 --> 00:21:48,149
destination he landed and immediately

527
00:21:51,919 --> 00:21:49,589
started telling a number of the people

528
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:51,929
at the airport what he had experienced

529
00:21:56,869 --> 00:21:54,210
and even he got all sorts of reactions

530
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,879
everybody got he was ridiculed by some

531
00:21:59,839 --> 00:21:58,559
other people were saying well it's

532
00:22:01,009 --> 00:21:59,849
probably one of those Rockets that

533
00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:01,019
they're testing or maybe it's something

534
00:22:07,170 --> 00:22:04,609
the Russians had and nobody really knew

535
00:22:09,570 --> 00:22:07,180
anyway he he

536
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:09,580
continued on after he refueled you

537
00:22:15,060 --> 00:22:11,470
continued on this final destination and

538
00:22:19,790 --> 00:22:15,070
he ended up in talking to I believe a

539
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:19,800
reporter at the East Oregonian newspaper

540
00:22:25,860 --> 00:22:23,530
and they did a brief interview the

541
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:25,870
reporter took it took a statement from

542
00:22:30,390 --> 00:22:27,610
Arnold sent out two or three paragraphs

543
00:22:33,570 --> 00:22:30,400
now how long was this after the sighting

544
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,580
at what point did we first learn that

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600
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601
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619
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620
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621
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three 49 48 that's what it sounds like

622
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623
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dark house that looks like no one is

624
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home

625
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is a small electronic device that makes

627
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the same light as a real television so

628
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from outside it looks like someone is

629
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home watching TV fake TV plugs in just

630
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like a lamp on a timer but is far more

631
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convincing to burglars fake TV deters

632
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burglars cost far less than an alarm and

633
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is highly recommended by numerous police

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departments use it anytime you're away

635
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from home to order your fake TV for only

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640
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seven seven five F a ke TV or go to fake

643
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tv.com fake tv.com

644
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the burglar deterrent

645
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we'd like to hear from you if you have a

646
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comment or question about the podcast

647
00:27:16,169 --> 00:27:11,320
send it to news at the para cast com

648
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:16,179
that's news at the podcast.com and if

649
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you'd like to catch up on past episodes

650
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we have hundreds of shows for you to

651
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download direct from the para cast com

652
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that's the para cast dot-com or check us

653
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out at iTunes with gene and Chris in the

654
00:27:39,020 --> 00:27:36,280
para cast and Cris by the ways on the

655
00:27:41,430 --> 00:27:39,030
phone today because his copy of Skype is

656
00:27:44,370 --> 00:27:41,440
non-functional this has all happened

657
00:27:46,980 --> 00:27:44,380
since Microsoft acquired Skype it's

658
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:46,990
their fault right Chris yeah okay it's

659
00:27:49,890 --> 00:27:48,490
everything is Microsoft's fault remember

660
00:27:51,659 --> 00:27:49,900
that I guess in a few years it'll be

661
00:27:53,850 --> 00:27:51,669
apples fault but still time for

662
00:27:56,490 --> 00:27:53,860
Microsoft's fault okay Kurt subtly is

663
00:27:59,039 --> 00:27:56,500
talking to us about Kenneth Arnold the

664
00:28:01,200 --> 00:27:59,049
guy whose sighting had created what a

665
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:01,210
legend we don't know okay I was gonna

666
00:28:06,330 --> 00:28:03,970
ask you Kirk before we broke how long

667
00:28:08,340 --> 00:28:06,340
did it take from the time Arnold had

668
00:28:11,070 --> 00:28:08,350
deciding until we learned about it in

669
00:28:15,210 --> 00:28:11,080
the press it was about a day went by he

670
00:28:17,549 --> 00:28:15,220
when when he made when he landed after

671
00:28:20,789 --> 00:28:17,559
the sighting his first landing that was

672
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:20,799
in at the I believe it's pronounced the

673
00:28:27,779 --> 00:28:25,530
Yukina airport in in the area of boys

674
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:27,789
that's where he told a number of people

675
00:28:32,370 --> 00:28:29,890
that he had experienced something he had

676
00:28:34,020 --> 00:28:32,380
wooden to something and he was he was

677
00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:34,030
ridiculed by some and others basically

678
00:28:38,430 --> 00:28:35,980
said well it was something the

679
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:38,440
government was testing anyway the next

680
00:28:44,310 --> 00:28:42,010
day he he landed in Pendleton Oregon and

681
00:28:47,039 --> 00:28:44,320
as we talked to a reporter named build a

682
00:28:50,299 --> 00:28:47,049
kit and he was a reporter for the a

683
00:28:52,770 --> 00:28:50,309
panel in East Oregonian and he he told

684
00:28:55,380 --> 00:28:52,780
pennilyn his story or briefly kind of

685
00:28:57,779 --> 00:28:55,390
summarized at pennilyn sent out a short

686
00:28:59,370 --> 00:28:57,789
story on this and i think about actually

687
00:29:02,669 --> 00:28:59,380
I think it went out over the Associated

688
00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:02,679
Press and or maybe maybe it was UPI at

689
00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:05,070
the time United Press International and

690
00:29:10,049 --> 00:29:07,840
anyway even the Pendleton went off off

691
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:10,059
to lunch didn't read think a lot about

692
00:29:12,450 --> 00:29:11,770
it he got back and the place was in

693
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:12,460
bedlam

694
00:29:16,140 --> 00:29:14,530
I mean everybody was getting calls from

695
00:29:18,450 --> 00:29:16,150
all over the place a newspaper was being

696
00:29:22,410 --> 00:29:18,460
inundated with phone calls about about

697
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:22,420
more on this flying saucer story as it

698
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:24,850
kind of became that came to be known at

699
00:29:30,090 --> 00:29:27,570
what point did the name flying saucers

700
00:29:32,940 --> 00:29:30,100
become public with the initial reporter

701
00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:32,950
what yeah he at one point our old made a

702
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:35,110
comedy in describing the objects he said

703
00:29:42,420 --> 00:29:39,250
that they moved through the air kind of

704
00:29:44,550 --> 00:29:42,430
like saucers skipping over the water and

705
00:29:48,210 --> 00:29:44,560
that was sort of reinterpreted as flying

706
00:29:50,940 --> 00:29:48,220
saucer and it obviously became legendary

707
00:29:52,230 --> 00:29:50,950
and Arnold had no intention of coining

708
00:29:53,670 --> 00:29:52,240
that phrase it was just the way he

709
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:53,680
described it because they had been

710
00:29:58,530 --> 00:29:55,930
moving in this this Ashkelon formation

711
00:30:02,370 --> 00:29:58,540
just sort of bobbing through the air and

712
00:30:04,380 --> 00:30:02,380
they were obviously powered or flew in a

713
00:30:06,030 --> 00:30:04,390
fashion unlike any aircraft that he knew

714
00:30:08,310 --> 00:30:06,040
about or that he had heard up to that

715
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:08,320
point or that anybody else to that point

716
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:10,690
that I've ever heard about in fact the

717
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:12,250
idea that this could have been a product

718
00:30:19,230 --> 00:30:16,450
and of Russian or Soviet Union science

719
00:30:21,630 --> 00:30:19,240
or any other terrestrial science at that

720
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:21,640
time was kind of ludicrous but nobody

721
00:30:24,930 --> 00:30:23,650
didn't know what to think the everybody

722
00:30:27,150 --> 00:30:24,940
that heard about this and the brother

723
00:30:29,130 --> 00:30:27,160
sightings too at the time in fact maybe

724
00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:29,140
I should touch on that a bit yeah let's

725
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:31,270
talk about what happened around him but

726
00:30:36,030 --> 00:30:33,610
did the initial flurry of reports all

727
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:36,040
surround Kenneth Arnold and flying

728
00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:39,010
saucers was it also about other reports

729
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:42,430
his was being the trigger his movie the

730
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:44,650
first that really made headlines and

731
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:46,810
Arnold's story and his photo was

732
00:30:52,500 --> 00:30:48,850
splashed all over newspapers all over

733
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:52,510
the country but in subsequent days this

734
00:30:59,010 --> 00:30:55,930
was of course I was June 24 a couple of

735
00:31:01,890 --> 00:30:59,020
weeks later another individual not an

736
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:01,900
airline pilot named email Smith EJ Smith

737
00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:03,610
or I believe in some accounts is his

738
00:31:11,670 --> 00:31:09,220
middle initials H Smith and his co-pilot

739
00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:11,680
and some passengers on an airliner that

740
00:31:16,260 --> 00:31:14,350
he was flying spotted a formation of

741
00:31:18,810 --> 00:31:16,270
objects that he described as being very

742
00:31:23,250 --> 00:31:18,820
similar to what angles had seen and this

743
00:31:26,130 --> 00:31:23,260
was this was July 4th in 1947 and Arnold

744
00:31:29,100 --> 00:31:26,140
and Smith later actually met they

745
00:31:31,470 --> 00:31:29,110
went to a newspaper office to look it at

746
00:31:32,850 --> 00:31:31,480
a photograph of a strange flying disc

747
00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:32,860
that have been taken by the US Coast

748
00:31:36,810 --> 00:31:35,230
Guardsmen and the the paper had

749
00:31:38,010 --> 00:31:36,820
published a photo and they wanted to see

750
00:31:40,410 --> 00:31:38,020
an original copy of it

751
00:31:42,330 --> 00:31:40,420
Arnold went there and he was he was

752
00:31:46,050 --> 00:31:42,340
introduced to Smith who was there maybe

753
00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:46,060
not coincidentally excuse me for

754
00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:47,830
interrupting but was this a Coast Guard

755
00:31:52,140 --> 00:31:50,470
reports from the Puget Sound area you

756
00:31:53,550 --> 00:31:52,150
know this was something different I

757
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:53,560
believe this was a Coast Guard who

758
00:31:57,630 --> 00:31:55,210
happened to be driving on highway and he

759
00:31:59,760 --> 00:31:57,640
saw something and took a photo of it the

760
00:32:02,460 --> 00:31:59,770
details of the photo aren't or that

761
00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:02,470
particular episode orange recounted very

762
00:32:07,860 --> 00:32:04,240
clearly in most reports simply because

763
00:32:11,370 --> 00:32:07,870
it's almost it's almost an after an

764
00:32:14,130 --> 00:32:11,380
afterthought in in the annals of what

765
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:14,140
was occurring at that time I also seem

766
00:32:17,820 --> 00:32:15,850
to remember that there was a quite a

767
00:32:20,220 --> 00:32:17,830
wave of sightings that occurred over the

768
00:32:22,740 --> 00:32:20,230
next week ten days prior to the Roswell

769
00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:22,750
event where yeah you had in Idaho or

770
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:24,880
Washington that whole Pacific Northwest

771
00:32:28,470 --> 00:32:26,890
area even down the coast always had

772
00:32:29,100 --> 00:32:28,480
quite a flurry of reports if I'm not

773
00:32:31,740 --> 00:32:29,110
mistaken

774
00:32:33,450 --> 00:32:31,750
yeah and in there were the reports all

775
00:32:35,550 --> 00:32:33,460
over the place and it's it's a matter of

776
00:32:38,250 --> 00:32:35,560
speculation as to whether the reports

777
00:32:40,410 --> 00:32:38,260
were triggered by Arnold sighting in

778
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:40,420
many cases maybe many of them may be

779
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:42,730
being made up or whether it was simply

780
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:44,290
that people were suddenly literally

781
00:32:47,730 --> 00:32:46,450
watching the skies and taking notice to

782
00:32:49,650 --> 00:32:47,740
things that they would have wouldn't

783
00:32:51,330 --> 00:32:49,660
have noticed before but you're

784
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,340
absolutely correct I mean there was a

785
00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:53,580
whole wave a whole flurry of sightings

786
00:32:58,020 --> 00:32:55,870
actually continued on pretty much to the

787
00:33:00,930 --> 00:32:58,030
rest of that summer now I know it's

788
00:33:03,180 --> 00:33:00,940
interesting here the supposed official

789
00:33:06,630 --> 00:33:03,190
Air Force explanation for Arnold

790
00:33:09,330 --> 00:33:06,640
sighting is that that was a mirage where

791
00:33:10,470 --> 00:33:09,340
did they get that from wow that's that's

792
00:33:13,260 --> 00:33:10,480
something I had never heard before

793
00:33:14,970 --> 00:33:13,270
that's according to the Wikipedia report

794
00:33:16,950 --> 00:33:14,980
on it on Arnold

795
00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:16,960
they claimed meth with the Air Force

796
00:33:21,870 --> 00:33:18,940
said which was disputed and they

797
00:33:23,490 --> 00:33:21,880
mentioned by people like Jerry Clark who

798
00:33:25,410 --> 00:33:23,500
said obviously it could not have been a

799
00:33:27,630 --> 00:33:25,420
mirage and certainly you think and

800
00:33:30,060 --> 00:33:27,640
experienced pilots someone who is really

801
00:33:32,010 --> 00:33:30,070
a seat-of-the-pants kind of guy he's not

802
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:32,020
inundated with all this instrumentation

803
00:33:35,580 --> 00:33:33,850
is you have airline pilots today you

804
00:33:36,870 --> 00:33:35,590
know today the plane can almost fly

805
00:33:39,020 --> 00:33:36,880
itself

806
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:39,030
and you had to do all the work yourself

807
00:33:46,530 --> 00:33:44,050
well the military was they did go they

808
00:33:50,250 --> 00:33:46,540
did talk to Donald to invest not to

809
00:33:52,290 --> 00:33:50,260
investigate his account it was a captain

810
00:33:53,460 --> 00:33:52,300
Braun and lieutenant Davidson I believe

811
00:33:57,060 --> 00:33:53,470
were the names of the two men they were

812
00:33:58,740 --> 00:33:57,070
with the army a to intelligence and they

813
00:34:00,960 --> 00:33:58,750
visited Arnold let his home after the

814
00:34:03,810 --> 00:34:00,970
after some of the upper over had died

815
00:34:05,790 --> 00:34:03,820
down and Arnold up to that point had he

816
00:34:07,860 --> 00:34:05,800
was being inundated with mail we he

817
00:34:10,110 --> 00:34:07,870
received tons of letters from all over

818
00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:10,120
the country from people that wanted

819
00:34:13,770 --> 00:34:11,919
information about this sighting or that

820
00:34:15,540 --> 00:34:13,780
had sightings of their own some of them

821
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:15,550
some of the letters were crank some of

822
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:16,690
them were from people that were

823
00:34:23,639 --> 00:34:19,050
genuinely mystified what was going on

824
00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:23,649
and these two officers showed up the

825
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:26,710
interviewed Arnold very polite took him

826
00:34:30,629 --> 00:34:28,810
very seriously and of course at the time

827
00:34:32,220 --> 00:34:30,639
there was some concern about national

828
00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:32,230
security I mean was just something the

829
00:34:36,629 --> 00:34:35,260
Russians had nobody knew so these are

830
00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:36,639
same two officers that were there to

831
00:34:41,970 --> 00:34:38,889
investigate the Harold Dahl and I

832
00:34:43,530 --> 00:34:41,980
couldn't claim of the same island and

833
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:43,540
yeah we're getting ahead of ourselves a

834
00:34:47,250 --> 00:34:45,010
bit but the same two that ended up dying

835
00:34:49,770 --> 00:34:47,260
in a mysterious plane crash right yeah I

836
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:49,780
just check-in yeah so they had a

837
00:34:55,919 --> 00:34:52,320
background with Arnold yeah they did

838
00:34:58,140 --> 00:34:55,929
they they gave Arnold the phone number

839
00:34:59,190 --> 00:34:58,150
and when they after they they looked

840
00:35:01,020 --> 00:34:59,200
through all of his mail with his

841
00:35:02,370 --> 00:35:01,030
permission and they gave him the phone

842
00:35:03,810 --> 00:35:02,380
number needs to look if he can think of

843
00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:03,820
anything else or if anything else

844
00:35:09,630 --> 00:35:07,870
happens feel free to call us the name

845
00:35:11,180 --> 00:35:09,640
they went on their way and Arnold really

846
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:11,190
never expected to hear from them again

847
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:13,810
and it was sometime around then that he

848
00:35:17,310 --> 00:35:15,610
received a phone call from some guy that

849
00:35:21,330 --> 00:35:17,320
I believe you knew Jean a guy named Ray

850
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:21,340
Palmer this is how Kenneth Arnold became

851
00:35:28,260 --> 00:35:24,310
from businessman and UFO witness into

852
00:35:33,090 --> 00:35:28,270
actually UFO researcher that's exactly

853
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:33,100
right he he got the call from from

854
00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:34,510
Palmer who's at the time I

855
00:35:39,720 --> 00:35:37,990
I guess the editor of the with it was it

856
00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:39,730
fate magazine or was it amazing that he

857
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:41,680
had at that point I think it was fate

858
00:35:48,690 --> 00:35:45,730
now fate magazine was founded by Curtis

859
00:35:50,579 --> 00:35:48,700
fuller and by Ray Palmer then later on

860
00:35:52,829 --> 00:35:50,589
they had a falling-out the fuller

861
00:35:54,150 --> 00:35:52,839
the Palmers I guess and Ray went off to

862
00:35:58,349 --> 00:35:54,160
do his own thing but this time of course

863
00:35:59,729 --> 00:35:58,359
Palmer contacted Arnold which had to be

864
00:36:01,109 --> 00:35:59,739
something out of the blue by the way if

865
00:36:03,359 --> 00:36:01,119
you've read the book by Edward ruppelt

866
00:36:04,109 --> 00:36:03,369
the report on unidentified flying

867
00:36:07,019 --> 00:36:04,119
objects

868
00:36:09,329 --> 00:36:07,029
he calls Palmer quote the chicago

869
00:36:11,789 --> 00:36:09,339
publisher if we're get into more of that

870
00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:11,799
in a moment by the way there are lots of

871
00:36:15,299 --> 00:36:13,450
ways to contact us here at the power

872
00:36:17,910 --> 00:36:15,309
cast you can write us Neal was at the

873
00:36:20,729 --> 00:36:17,920
power cast calm that's news at the power

874
00:36:23,219 --> 00:36:20,739
cast calm you can send us a tweet the

875
00:36:25,620 --> 00:36:23,229
power casts what else can we be the

876
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:25,630
power casts on Twitter or check out our

877
00:36:31,410 --> 00:36:29,170
forums forum dot to the para cast calm

878
00:36:34,769 --> 00:36:31,420
once again that's forum dot the power

879
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cast com sign up get in on all the

880
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action

881
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we have Kurt suddenly joining us Jean

882
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and Chris on America

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890
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a lot good stuff that's the swag from

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[Music]

983
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:03,980
hi this is Don Ecker and you are tuned

984
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:06,890
in to the para cast let me tell you what

985
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:09,260
you're gonna hear stuff here that you

986
00:41:15,460 --> 00:41:12,770
probably won't hear anywhere else hear

987
00:41:17,049 --> 00:41:15,470
that George snoring we have Kurt's

988
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:17,059
southerly and we're talking about

989
00:41:21,370 --> 00:41:19,010
Kenneth Arnold Kurt of course is written

990
00:41:24,039 --> 00:41:21,380
about UFOs for years he actually had a

991
00:41:26,170 --> 00:41:24,049
book out called UFO mysteries a reporter

992
00:41:28,180 --> 00:41:26,180
seeks the truth it was published about

993
00:41:29,740 --> 00:41:28,190
ten years ago it is still available if

994
00:41:31,390 --> 00:41:29,750
you want to get a copy it's a really a

995
00:41:34,230 --> 00:41:31,400
great book it's actually the one and

996
00:41:37,420 --> 00:41:34,240
only UFO book that my son has ever read

997
00:41:39,609 --> 00:41:37,430
so Kurt you have to feel yourself proud

998
00:41:41,289 --> 00:41:39,619
that you inspired him to read a little

999
00:41:43,180 --> 00:41:41,299
bit about that subject okay we talked

1000
00:41:45,220 --> 00:41:43,190
about Kenneth Arnold and about the fact

1001
00:41:48,490 --> 00:41:45,230
that out of the blue Ray Palmer of

1002
00:41:50,859 --> 00:41:48,500
course he's notorious or famous for the

1003
00:41:52,870 --> 00:41:50,869
shaver mystery about creatures

1004
00:41:56,740 --> 00:41:52,880
underneath the earth and Richard shaver

1005
00:41:58,809 --> 00:41:56,750
he was the editor of amazing stories he

1006
00:42:01,390 --> 00:41:58,819
knew people like Edgar Rice Burroughs

1007
00:42:03,849 --> 00:42:01,400
and that's the guy who wrote the novel

1008
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:03,859
in which this movie John Carter is based

1009
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:05,690
so you know Palmer got around both

1010
00:42:10,930 --> 00:42:08,690
science fiction and the paranormal so he

1011
00:42:13,710 --> 00:42:10,940
calls Kenneth Arnold out of the blue

1012
00:42:17,589 --> 00:42:13,720
what happened next well according to

1013
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:17,599
most of the accounts no the alternates

1014
00:42:23,710 --> 00:42:19,250
are pretty much all the various accounts

1015
00:42:25,599 --> 00:42:23,720
that pertain to this episode Palmer told

1016
00:42:27,940 --> 00:42:25,609
Arnold that he had received a letter

1017
00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:27,950
from to Harbor patrolmen in Tacoma

1018
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:30,710
Washington and they used to harbor

1019
00:42:35,470 --> 00:42:32,890
patrolmen and I put quotes around that

1020
00:42:38,769 --> 00:42:35,480
they claimed that they had spotted

1021
00:42:42,849 --> 00:42:38,779
flying discs or flying Donuts or

1022
00:42:44,470 --> 00:42:42,859
something over mari island which today

1023
00:42:45,910 --> 00:42:44,480
is actually a peninsula at the time I

1024
00:42:48,039 --> 00:42:45,920
guess it was actually just an island

1025
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:48,049
distinct and separate from the mainland

1026
00:42:52,750 --> 00:42:51,200
but now it's due to geological changes

1027
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:52,760
is now a peninsula well of course

1028
00:42:59,890 --> 00:42:55,730
there's no global warming right anyways

1029
00:43:01,390 --> 00:42:59,900
in Puget Sound and so Palmer essentially

1030
00:43:02,559 --> 00:43:01,400
wanted to know if Arnold would fly out

1031
00:43:05,380 --> 00:43:02,569
there to investigate it

1032
00:43:06,819 --> 00:43:05,390
all-expenses-paid in fact I think I need

1033
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:06,829
to back up on something I've jumped I

1034
00:43:10,569 --> 00:43:08,240
jumped ahead of myself though that

1035
00:43:10,970 --> 00:43:10,579
initially when Palmer contacted all he

1036
00:43:13,070 --> 00:43:10,980
has

1037
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:13,080
he would write an article for the

1038
00:43:18,890 --> 00:43:16,560
magazine about his sighting and Arnold

1039
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:18,900
did not do this he declined to do this

1040
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:20,970
instead he sent him a copy of a report

1041
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:22,770
that he had filed with the air force in

1042
00:43:27,380 --> 00:43:25,770
fact Arnold ended up in the in the

1043
00:43:30,230 --> 00:43:27,390
record books in the aviation record

1044
00:43:32,599 --> 00:43:30,240
books because he was the first pilot to

1045
00:43:34,220 --> 00:43:32,609
officially report the sighting of flying

1046
00:43:34,849 --> 00:43:34,230
saucers her own identified flying

1047
00:43:37,670 --> 00:43:34,859
objects

1048
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:37,680
anyway after when Palmer contacting them

1049
00:43:40,310 --> 00:43:39,090
again it was about the letter that he

1050
00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:40,320
had received from these two Harbor

1051
00:43:44,930 --> 00:43:42,960
patrolmen and it was apparently sent to

1052
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,940
him by somebody named Fred Lee Chrisman

1053
00:43:48,370 --> 00:43:46,800
who later became famous for other

1054
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:48,380
reasons and we can get into that later

1055
00:43:54,260 --> 00:43:51,690
but in the letter Chrisman said that

1056
00:43:56,690 --> 00:43:54,270
they had spotted these objects that

1057
00:43:58,609 --> 00:43:56,700
something had happened and you know he

1058
00:44:00,859 --> 00:43:58,619
was wondering if Palmer would like to

1059
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:00,869
hear more about this and Palmer

1060
00:44:05,810 --> 00:44:02,490
contacted Arnold and asked him to fly

1061
00:44:07,790 --> 00:44:05,820
out Arnold initially declined and then

1062
00:44:10,070 --> 00:44:07,800
he was talking about this with a friend

1063
00:44:12,530 --> 00:44:10,080
of his Ikuo I believe the man's name was

1064
00:44:15,650 --> 00:44:12,540
Colonel Weiland who was supposed to had

1065
00:44:17,270 --> 00:44:15,660
been big shot at the Nuremberg trials at

1066
00:44:18,950 --> 00:44:17,280
the end of World War two who he was a

1067
00:44:22,310 --> 00:44:18,960
close friend of Arnold's and there's

1068
00:44:24,470 --> 00:44:22,320
some suspicion that that he may have had

1069
00:44:26,599 --> 00:44:24,480
had something to do with all of this

1070
00:44:28,460 --> 00:44:26,609
Arnold was surrounded by some strange

1071
00:44:30,470 --> 00:44:28,470
intelligence people four people that

1072
00:44:33,140 --> 00:44:30,480
were allegedly part of the intelligence

1073
00:44:35,090 --> 00:44:33,150
community there was an aviation editor

1074
00:44:38,420 --> 00:44:35,100
at the Idaho daily Statesman a guy named

1075
00:44:40,460 --> 00:44:38,430
Dave Johnson who was a rumor dad been

1076
00:44:42,500 --> 00:44:40,470
part of the intelligence community and

1077
00:44:44,540 --> 00:44:42,510
supposedly had actually been compiling a

1078
00:44:48,349 --> 00:44:44,550
dossier on arnold after after all of

1079
00:44:50,210 --> 00:44:48,359
this occurred there were there were a

1080
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:50,220
number of other people but all was in a

1081
00:44:54,460 --> 00:44:52,890
position as a deputy federal marshal to

1082
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:54,470
be surrounded by these kind of people

1083
00:45:01,670 --> 00:44:58,800
anyway I'm kind of digressing he he

1084
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:01,680
finally agreed after talking to Whelan

1085
00:45:05,090 --> 00:45:02,970
Weiland basically said look the guy's

1086
00:45:07,580 --> 00:45:05,100
going to pay you to fly to Tacoma

1087
00:45:09,820 --> 00:45:07,590
Washington investigate this stuff you

1088
00:45:13,550 --> 00:45:09,830
know why not take these money and do it

1089
00:45:17,390 --> 00:45:13,560
so our old side okay he contacted Palmer

1090
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:17,400
he said I'll do it he arranged to take

1091
00:45:21,290 --> 00:45:19,530
off for Tacoma he didn't file a flight

1092
00:45:24,170 --> 00:45:21,300
plan he simply left from a pasture near

1093
00:45:24,829 --> 00:45:24,180
his home at the time it was early enough

1094
00:45:26,599 --> 00:45:24,839
in the air

1095
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,609
of aviation that you could often do that

1096
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:28,079
you didn't need to file professional

1097
00:45:31,370 --> 00:45:30,210
flight plan and I think his wife was

1098
00:45:31,999 --> 00:45:31,380
really the only one that knew where he

1099
00:45:36,039 --> 00:45:32,009
was going

1100
00:45:38,539 --> 00:45:36,049
anyway you left he he flew went to

1101
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:38,549
Tacoma I'm trying to remember the date I

1102
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:40,410
honestly don't recall the date that he

1103
00:45:47,269 --> 00:45:44,729
actually flew in there but he he got to

1104
00:45:50,479 --> 00:45:47,279
Tacoma he landed a small airport outside

1105
00:45:52,009 --> 00:45:50,489
of the city he decided to land outside

1106
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:52,019
of the city rather than closer in

1107
00:45:57,049 --> 00:45:55,410
because he he was he was famous his

1108
00:45:58,519 --> 00:45:57,059
picture result over the newspapers he

1109
00:46:00,380 --> 00:45:58,529
wanted to go in someplace where he

1110
00:46:02,209 --> 00:46:00,390
thought nobody would know him so what

1111
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:02,219
people actually just coming up in the

1112
00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:04,410
street saying you're Kenneth Arnold tell

1113
00:46:09,259 --> 00:46:06,900
me about the space people I don't recall

1114
00:46:11,930 --> 00:46:09,269
anybody actually saying that to him or I

1115
00:46:13,130 --> 00:46:11,940
did never in my research I never

1116
00:46:15,859 --> 00:46:13,140
uncovered that but I'm sure that

1117
00:46:18,829 --> 00:46:15,869
happened and I know he when I talked to

1118
00:46:20,749 --> 00:46:18,839
him in the telephone he was very brusque

1119
00:46:22,249 --> 00:46:20,759
because he was just he was just

1120
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:22,259
disgusted with the news media so

1121
00:46:28,969 --> 00:46:23,729
obviously he was being countered by the

1122
00:46:30,890 --> 00:46:28,979
news media continually but he just he

1123
00:46:32,870 --> 00:46:30,900
was a private kind of person and that's

1124
00:46:34,999 --> 00:46:32,880
this whole thing was just completely

1125
00:46:38,479 --> 00:46:35,009
different for him he was not the kind of

1126
00:46:42,049 --> 00:46:38,489
guide to go seeking fame or notoriety

1127
00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:42,059
and he was just he just wanted to kind

1128
00:46:45,650 --> 00:46:43,680
of get to the bottom of this because he

1129
00:46:48,559 --> 00:46:45,660
felt it was Liberty Cutler's his

1130
00:46:49,999 --> 00:46:48,569
patriotic duty you know this was

1131
00:46:51,380 --> 00:46:50,009
something that the Russians had or

1132
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:51,390
something that some other country had

1133
00:46:55,370 --> 00:46:52,890
and it could be a threat to the United

1134
00:46:58,069 --> 00:46:55,380
States he needed to get to the bottom of

1135
00:47:00,890 --> 00:46:58,079
this if he could so he lands at this

1136
00:47:02,779 --> 00:47:00,900
little Airport uses the airport pay

1137
00:47:05,089 --> 00:47:02,789
phone to call into the city looking for

1138
00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:05,099
a room to stay at in the city isn't a

1139
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:08,160
meaning in it in the throes of a housing

1140
00:47:13,910 --> 00:47:11,130
shortage there was almost literally no

1141
00:47:15,469 --> 00:47:13,920
place to stay in any of the hotels he

1142
00:47:17,390 --> 00:47:15,479
called every place he couldn't he

1143
00:47:19,190 --> 00:47:17,400
couldn't find a room so finally he

1144
00:47:21,019 --> 00:47:19,200
called the Winthrop Hotel which was the

1145
00:47:25,130 --> 00:47:21,029
largest and most expensive hotel in the

1146
00:47:29,029 --> 00:47:25,140
city and lo and behold they had a room

1147
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:29,039
registered for Kenneth Arnold and I

1148
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:30,690
should say retina reserved for Kenneth

1149
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:32,729
ahold and he said this has to be a

1150
00:47:37,309 --> 00:47:34,410
different Kenneth on because I didn't

1151
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:37,319
reserve a room and the clerk did he

1152
00:47:40,370 --> 00:47:38,370
talked to

1153
00:47:42,050 --> 00:47:40,380
said well you know nobody else has

1154
00:47:45,650 --> 00:47:42,060
claimed it it's yours if you want it so

1155
00:47:48,530 --> 00:47:45,660
he'd alright he took a room he gets into

1156
00:47:51,140 --> 00:47:48,540
town looks through the local phonebook

1157
00:47:52,990 --> 00:47:51,150
after he got settled in and just starts

1158
00:47:56,770 --> 00:47:53,000
locating he's trying to locate the

1159
00:48:00,440 --> 00:47:56,780
people the two principal players in this

1160
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:00,450
alleged sighting of UFOs over over mari

1161
00:48:04,820 --> 00:48:02,880
island the two players were the guy

1162
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:04,830
named Fred Lee Chrisman mentioned him

1163
00:48:12,620 --> 00:48:08,970
before in Harold Dahl now the supposedly

1164
00:48:14,780 --> 00:48:12,630
they were the operators of the co-owners

1165
00:48:16,130 --> 00:48:14,790
of a small boat and they used to they

1166
00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:16,140
used to put out into the harbour and

1167
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:18,990
they locate drifting logs and they would

1168
00:48:23,420 --> 00:48:21,210
snag these logs and bring them in and

1169
00:48:25,460 --> 00:48:23,430
they would resell them and I guess they

1170
00:48:29,450 --> 00:48:25,470
also supposedly operated some sort of a

1171
00:48:33,710 --> 00:48:29,460
lumber mill and on this particular

1172
00:48:37,940 --> 00:48:33,720
instance all claimed I guess he ended up

1173
00:48:39,290 --> 00:48:37,950
coming to the room he Arnold located

1174
00:48:41,780 --> 00:48:39,300
dollars number in the phone book called

1175
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:41,790
him doll basically said look I don't

1176
00:48:46,250 --> 00:48:43,200
want to talk about this and if I were

1177
00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:46,260
you I just leave town he just sounded

1178
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:47,640
real nervous about the whole thing well

1179
00:48:51,260 --> 00:48:49,890
finally after being pressured Arnold he

1180
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:51,270
agreed to come to the hotel room he

1181
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:53,490
showed out I told him the story about

1182
00:48:59,450 --> 00:48:56,880
how he had been out on the boat there

1183
00:49:01,460 --> 00:48:59,460
was a that can was with him a son with

1184
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:01,470
was with him that the family dog was

1185
00:49:04,910 --> 00:49:03,210
with him and these objects flew overhead

1186
00:49:06,140 --> 00:49:04,920
and one of them appeared to be in

1187
00:49:10,250 --> 00:49:06,150
trouble and he said they looked like

1188
00:49:11,900 --> 00:49:10,260
huge metallic doughnuts with portals

1189
00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:11,910
around the inside and I guess the

1190
00:49:17,780 --> 00:49:15,570
outside of the of the objects some kind

1191
00:49:19,790 --> 00:49:17,790
of strange slag like material began to

1192
00:49:21,350 --> 00:49:19,800
spew out of some of the openings the

1193
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:21,360
center of one of the objects which

1194
00:49:26,090 --> 00:49:24,000
appeared to be in trouble this stuff

1195
00:49:27,530 --> 00:49:26,100
fell all over the water felled and I

1196
00:49:28,970 --> 00:49:27,540
fell along the shore of nearby mari

1197
00:49:32,180 --> 00:49:28,980
island and I guess some of it hit the

1198
00:49:34,430 --> 00:49:32,190
boat the dog was supposedly killed dolls

1199
00:49:37,940 --> 00:49:34,440
boy was supposedly injured I guess his

1200
00:49:40,220 --> 00:49:37,950
arm was broken or something and the

1201
00:49:41,210 --> 00:49:40,230
windshield of the boat was was broken

1202
00:49:46,450 --> 00:49:41,220
and I guess the wheelhouse

1203
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:46,460
was was damaged anyway Dahl said he

1204
00:49:52,190 --> 00:49:50,010
turned around went back I guess he

1205
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:52,200
reported this tube to Fred Lee

1206
00:49:57,230 --> 00:49:54,450
Chrisman who in depending the surgery

1207
00:50:00,310 --> 00:49:57,240
Chrisman was his equal some say he was

1208
00:50:04,370 --> 00:50:00,320
his superior and in the lumber business

1209
00:50:05,900 --> 00:50:04,380
and then he about these two were kind of

1210
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,910
joined at the hip it almost seems them

1211
00:50:09,710 --> 00:50:07,440
and they were closely closely involved

1212
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:09,720
in whatever was occurring at that time

1213
00:50:15,620 --> 00:50:12,930
now we can ask you later but Crispin is

1214
00:50:17,810 --> 00:50:15,630
a peculiar character with a strange

1215
00:50:23,300 --> 00:50:17,820
story but we'll get into that as we

1216
00:50:25,310 --> 00:50:23,310
progress okay so if you're ready to take

1217
00:50:26,660 --> 00:50:25,320
a break or not no no no I wanted to

1218
00:50:28,750 --> 00:50:26,670
continue with that go ahead for another

1219
00:50:32,990 --> 00:50:28,760
minute or so okay

1220
00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:33,000
anyway Chrisman according to dollar

1221
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:34,710
story didn't believe in the first and

1222
00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:36,210
then he looked at the damage to the boat

1223
00:50:40,599 --> 00:50:38,250
and he tried to blame Dahl for simply

1224
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:40,609
misusing the boat but then I guess he

1225
00:50:45,500 --> 00:50:43,290
allegedly he went back out and he saw

1226
00:50:48,140 --> 00:50:45,510
one of these this himself which he said

1227
00:50:50,870 --> 00:50:48,150
disappeared behind the cloud and he

1228
00:50:52,370 --> 00:50:50,880
found a lot of these fragments laying

1229
00:50:54,020 --> 00:50:52,380
all over the shortened our island and

1230
00:50:58,099 --> 00:50:54,030
collected a couple boxes of this stuff

1231
00:50:59,960 --> 00:50:58,109
and took it back well Arnold gets a

1232
00:51:01,700 --> 00:50:59,970
story out of dull and dull is like

1233
00:51:04,130 --> 00:51:01,710
six-foot-two built like a lumberjack

1234
00:51:07,870 --> 00:51:04,140
very nervous even though he's very big

1235
00:51:11,450 --> 00:51:07,880
and very intimidating in appearance he

1236
00:51:13,490 --> 00:51:11,460
he finally leaves and the next the next

1237
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:13,500
day Arnold was awakened in the hotel

1238
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:14,880
room by somebody beating on his door and

1239
00:51:19,099 --> 00:51:16,800
it's fredchristman and he comes in he

1240
00:51:21,470 --> 00:51:19,109
tells his version of the story well by

1241
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:21,480
the time this is all finished Arnold is

1242
00:51:25,550 --> 00:51:23,490
getting a little freaked out he's

1243
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:25,560
thinking man I'm in over my head here I

1244
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:27,930
will get into what might have caused

1245
00:51:32,420 --> 00:51:30,210
that feeling in further detail we have

1246
00:51:36,850 --> 00:51:32,430
Kurt suddenly joining gene and Chris

1247
00:51:41,350 --> 00:51:39,130
[Music]

1248
00:51:43,820 --> 00:51:41,360
America's number one source for

1249
00:51:44,750 --> 00:51:43,830
independent talk retail for over a

1250
00:51:49,910 --> 00:51:44,760
decade

1251
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:49,920
we are the gcn radio network hi this is

1252
00:51:53,900 --> 00:51:51,690
Ted Anderson if you'd like to listen to

1253
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:53,910
GCN programs on the goal I have great

1254
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news

1255
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1256
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1259
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1261
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1264
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1265
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:17,340
for listening to GC and live.com again

1266
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:19,890
that's juicy and live.com hi this is Ted

1267
00:52:23,240 --> 00:52:21,210
Anderson have you ever wondered why

1268
00:52:25,010 --> 00:52:23,250
banks stockbrokers investment advisors

1269
00:52:27,020 --> 00:52:25,020
won't talk about gold IRA raise they've

1270
00:52:28,850 --> 00:52:27,030
been available since 1986 yet the

1271
00:52:30,770 --> 00:52:28,860
financial industry won't recognize the

1272
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:30,780
value of gold for your attire 'men coal

1273
00:52:34,820 --> 00:52:32,700
has outperformed paper investments yet

1274
00:52:47,500 --> 00:52:34,830
no word about IRAs if you would like to

1275
00:52:55,210 --> 00:52:49,190
806-853-9949

1276
00:53:03,220 --> 00:52:58,910
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1277
00:53:10,490 --> 00:53:03,230
standard of paranormal radio and now

1278
00:53:12,950 --> 00:53:10,500
here's Jane Steinberg with Curt

1279
00:53:15,770 --> 00:53:12,960
southerly joining us on the power cast

1280
00:53:18,350 --> 00:53:15,780
with Jean and Chris focusing on first

1281
00:53:20,930 --> 00:53:18,360
the amazing sighting that started it all

1282
00:53:22,330 --> 00:53:20,940
although maybe not in historical sense

1283
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:22,340
but certainly in the popular media

1284
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:25,410
flying saucers scene by Kenneth Arnold

1285
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:27,510
and then his involvement in the Moriya

1286
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:30,410
Island affair really really strange so

1287
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:33,570
Chrisman tells a different story Kurt

1288
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:36,930
endow his story is I mean his story kind

1289
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:39,330
of reinforces dolls he basically tells

1290
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:42,240
his Arnold that yep doll came to me and

1291
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:44,970
said he had this sighting that the boat

1292
00:53:48,530 --> 00:53:47,280
was damaged by slag falling from one of

1293
00:53:51,050 --> 00:53:48,540
the objects which appeared to be in

1294
00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:51,060
trouble and he says you know I didn't

1295
00:53:55,580 --> 00:53:52,740
really believe him so I went back out

1296
00:53:57,590 --> 00:53:55,590
there and and found this stuff laying

1297
00:53:59,690 --> 00:53:57,600
all over the shore at mari island saw

1298
00:54:02,300 --> 00:53:59,700
one of these objects myself he comes

1299
00:54:03,950 --> 00:54:02,310
back he tells Arnold this or he shows up

1300
00:54:06,610 --> 00:54:03,960
the next morning at the hotel room gets

1301
00:54:09,650 --> 00:54:06,620
on a lot of bed telling this story and

1302
00:54:11,870 --> 00:54:09,660
by the time he leaves I was freaking out

1303
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:11,880
he's thinking I don't know what to do

1304
00:54:15,890 --> 00:54:14,010
you know I don't I don't really like

1305
00:54:17,210 --> 00:54:15,900
these guys I don't really trust them I

1306
00:54:18,740 --> 00:54:17,220
mean he's not saying it's a lot

1307
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:18,750
obviously thinking although this at the

1308
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,970
time now this is largely based also on

1309
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:23,040
his account in that book the coming of

1310
00:54:28,370 --> 00:54:26,400
the saucers yeah okay it's part of the

1311
00:54:30,020 --> 00:54:28,380
account in his book it's also something

1312
00:54:32,090 --> 00:54:30,030
that he told me during the interview and

1313
00:54:34,670 --> 00:54:32,100
it's also something that he's reported

1314
00:54:36,140 --> 00:54:34,680
on another other places since anyway he

1315
00:54:38,900 --> 00:54:36,150
also told me during the interview that

1316
00:54:41,270 --> 00:54:38,910
by the way he he the information that he

1317
00:54:42,980 --> 00:54:41,280
put in the coming of the saucers the

1318
00:54:44,810 --> 00:54:42,990
quotes that he has in there the comments

1319
00:54:46,700 --> 00:54:44,820
they weren't made up he actually took a

1320
00:54:47,930 --> 00:54:46,710
small reel-to-reel tape recorder with

1321
00:54:49,850 --> 00:54:47,940
him he said it was one of the earliest

1322
00:54:51,830 --> 00:54:49,860
of its kind and he said he just wanted

1323
00:54:52,850 --> 00:54:51,840
people to be aware of that so that they

1324
00:54:54,860 --> 00:54:52,860
wouldn't think that he made all this

1325
00:54:56,810 --> 00:54:54,870
stuff up so everything that that

1326
00:54:58,880 --> 00:54:56,820
happened in the room the inner Berryessa

1327
00:55:00,290 --> 00:54:58,890
interviews he had recorded it be

1328
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:00,300
interesting you know those ripping those

1329
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:01,890
records are still around some places

1330
00:55:06,590 --> 00:55:03,330
those tapes would still be available

1331
00:55:08,270 --> 00:55:06,600
then anyway again I'm digressing he

1332
00:55:11,420 --> 00:55:08,280
talks to he talks to dolly

1333
00:55:13,580 --> 00:55:11,430
to Chrisman and he's freaking out and he

1334
00:55:15,080 --> 00:55:13,590
decides I need help so he thinks for

1335
00:55:17,660 --> 00:55:15,090
some reason he thinks that captain EJ

1336
00:55:19,940 --> 00:55:17,670
Smith this airline pilot who had spotted

1337
00:55:21,290 --> 00:55:19,950
flying saucers and me had met when they

1338
00:55:25,100 --> 00:55:21,300
were looking at the photo taken by the

1339
00:55:27,590 --> 00:55:25,110
Coast Guardsman say call Smith and Smith

1340
00:55:30,620 --> 00:55:27,600
as it turns out has the day off he flies

1341
00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:30,630
up to I plug as he flies into Oregon to

1342
00:55:33,740 --> 00:55:31,380
pick him up

1343
00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:33,750
flies Smith back to the hotel room

1344
00:55:37,550 --> 00:55:35,730
they're camped out in the room and

1345
00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:37,560
they're discussing all of this the next

1346
00:55:42,410 --> 00:55:40,800
day Chrisman and Dahl both show up tell

1347
00:55:44,930 --> 00:55:42,420
the whole story over again see had these

1348
00:55:48,170 --> 00:55:44,940
four guys sitting in the room Chrisman

1349
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:48,180
and doll leaned and all in Smith are

1350
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:49,680
sitting here trying to they're puzzling

1351
00:55:53,630 --> 00:55:51,090
over all of this and they get a phone

1352
00:55:56,630 --> 00:55:53,640
call and it's a phone call from a guy

1353
00:55:58,490 --> 00:55:56,640
named Ted Morello who is in UPI office

1354
00:56:00,850 --> 00:55:58,500
strangely enough right across the street

1355
00:56:04,040 --> 00:56:00,860
from where the winter hotel was located

1356
00:56:05,690 --> 00:56:04,050
and he says you know you guys are in

1357
00:56:07,850 --> 00:56:05,700
there talking about flying saucers and

1358
00:56:09,020 --> 00:56:07,860
all said what do you mean he says look

1359
00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:09,030
he said I know what you're talking about

1360
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:12,180
he said he said somebody is calling here

1361
00:56:16,220 --> 00:56:14,370
telling me verbatim what you guys are

1362
00:56:18,140 --> 00:56:16,230
discussing in the room he said it's like

1363
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:18,150
your rooms booked that's pretty bizarre

1364
00:56:24,530 --> 00:56:20,810
I mean that really makes you wonder how

1365
00:56:27,860 --> 00:56:24,540
how involved the military intelligence

1366
00:56:31,610 --> 00:56:27,870
folks or the intelligence operatives I

1367
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:31,620
this is priests CIA could have been FBI

1368
00:56:36,020 --> 00:56:33,450
do we have any indication who that's

1369
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:36,030
could have been well then nobody really

1370
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:37,650
seems to know I mean there's some

1371
00:56:41,810 --> 00:56:40,050
indication and and I'm kind of getting

1372
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:41,820
to this or some indication that Smith

1373
00:56:48,590 --> 00:56:44,970
himself may have been an informant but

1374
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:48,600
any event at that point when they get

1375
00:56:51,620 --> 00:56:49,770
off the phone with Morello they

1376
00:56:53,630 --> 00:56:51,630
literally told you tore the room apart

1377
00:56:56,060 --> 00:56:53,640
looking for some kind of bugging devices

1378
00:56:58,460 --> 00:56:56,070
they didn't find anything not from what

1379
00:57:01,280 --> 00:56:58,470
I understand this was like a third floor

1380
00:57:03,110 --> 00:57:01,290
room and it was in a corner and they

1381
00:57:04,850 --> 00:57:03,120
didn't I guess there were no other rooms

1382
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:04,860
available so they couldn't simply move

1383
00:57:09,710 --> 00:57:06,570
to a different location they were stuck

1384
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:09,720
in that room and now in terms of bugs

1385
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:11,970
understand ladies and gentlemen this is

1386
00:57:18,110 --> 00:57:14,490
the late 1940s we're not talking about

1387
00:57:20,630 --> 00:57:18,120
these microscopic radio transmitters you

1388
00:57:21,650 --> 00:57:20,640
can stick them inside a light bulb base

1389
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:21,660
or something

1390
00:57:25,069 --> 00:57:22,770
all right this would have been something

1391
00:57:27,020 --> 00:57:25,079
fairly sizable you know something that

1392
00:57:29,329 --> 00:57:27,030
with a thorough search he should have

1393
00:57:31,549 --> 00:57:29,339
been able to find anyway there were

1394
00:57:33,620 --> 00:57:31,559
subsequent interviews with doll and

1395
00:57:35,329 --> 00:57:33,630
Chrisman and the whole scenario got

1396
00:57:37,789 --> 00:57:35,339
worse and got stranger and stranger at

1397
00:57:40,490 --> 00:57:37,799
one point Kristin brought a box of these

1398
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:40,500
slag like samples into the room so they

1399
00:57:46,910 --> 00:57:44,160
had samples of this mysterious substance

1400
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:46,920
which looked like slag from a smelter

1401
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:49,770
from something that was just dumped out

1402
00:57:55,670 --> 00:57:53,609
of the out of the furnace at an ore site

1403
00:57:58,309 --> 00:57:55,680
had to stuff scattered all over the room

1404
00:58:01,370 --> 00:57:58,319
and Chrisman claimed he had sent some of

1405
00:58:03,289 --> 00:58:01,380
this stuff back to some lab back east

1406
00:58:05,029 --> 00:58:03,299
someplace to some lab asking to have it

1407
00:58:07,609 --> 00:58:05,039
tested but there he hadn't gotten any

1408
00:58:09,200 --> 00:58:07,619
kind of response from this yeah there's

1409
00:58:11,210 --> 00:58:09,210
some rumors that he actually sent some

1410
00:58:12,230 --> 00:58:11,220
of this up to to Ray Palmer although I

1411
00:58:17,450 --> 00:58:12,240
don't know if that's ever been verified

1412
00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:17,460
or not any case by this time with with

1413
00:58:22,069 --> 00:58:19,710
the the hope that the whole business

1414
00:58:24,529 --> 00:58:22,079
with Arnold and Smith they're just there

1415
00:58:25,849 --> 00:58:24,539
they're they're both freaking out or at

1416
00:58:27,950 --> 00:58:25,859
least that's the way it seems darn 'old

1417
00:58:30,319 --> 00:58:27,960
you see but they're different times when

1418
00:58:31,549 --> 00:58:30,329
Smith I'm kind of jumping around here

1419
00:58:33,319 --> 00:58:31,559
because I'm trying to reconstruct this

1420
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:33,329
from memory a lot of it there were times

1421
00:58:39,710 --> 00:58:37,410
when Smith and Chrisman would leave the

1422
00:58:41,620 --> 00:58:39,720
room and at one point they left for

1423
00:58:45,740 --> 00:58:41,630
quite a few hours and supposedly

1424
00:58:46,910 --> 00:58:45,750
Chrisman drove Smith back to Seattle so

1425
00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:46,920
that he could pick up some personal

1426
00:58:50,750 --> 00:58:48,900
items and his hand bring his car back

1427
00:58:52,130 --> 00:58:50,760
because Arnold had flown up there and

1428
00:58:54,049 --> 00:58:52,140
brought him back a US and short notice

1429
00:58:56,150 --> 00:58:54,059
but in any case on at least two

1430
00:58:58,069 --> 00:58:56,160
occasions Smith and Chrisman left the

1431
00:59:01,730 --> 00:58:58,079
room for an extended period of time

1432
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:01,740
together and there really is there's

1433
00:59:06,170 --> 00:59:04,170
some suspicion as to whether these guys

1434
00:59:09,950 --> 00:59:06,180
knew each other or not knew each other

1435
00:59:12,140 --> 00:59:09,960
previously anyway this Ted Morello kept

1436
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:12,150
calling and saying I'm still getting

1437
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:14,130
mysterious caller saying telling me

1438
00:59:17,269 --> 00:59:15,450
verbatim what you guys are talking about

1439
00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:17,279
then they get a phone call from a guy

1440
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:21,569
named Lance Ted Lance I think his name

1441
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:24,480
was he was he was a local reporter for

1442
00:59:28,910 --> 00:59:27,119
for the for the local paper he called

1443
00:59:31,549 --> 00:59:28,920
and he said that he was getting calls

1444
00:59:32,450 --> 00:59:31,559
from a mysterious informant and then he

1445
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:32,460
knew they were talking about flying

1446
00:59:37,290 --> 00:59:34,690
saucers where they hung up on him or on

1447
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:37,300
the next day this miss Lansky shows up

1448
00:59:44,190 --> 00:59:40,570
at the room Smith frisks him and kicks

1449
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:44,200
him out of the room well later on and of

1450
00:59:46,830 --> 00:59:46,090
course I'm jumping ahead again later on

1451
00:59:48,570 --> 00:59:46,840
Lance

1452
00:59:50,010 --> 00:59:48,580
wrote a newspaper story and then he

1453
00:59:53,130 --> 00:59:50,020
subsequently ended up dying under

1454
00:59:55,490 --> 00:59:53,140
mysterious circumstances but he's a

1455
00:59:58,350 --> 00:59:55,500
mysterious circumstances in what respect

1456
01:00:00,660 --> 00:59:58,360
well they're different stories arisen

1457
01:00:03,210 --> 01:00:00,670
there was one story that that that he

1458
01:00:05,010 --> 01:00:03,220
died in a car crash there's another

1459
01:00:07,290 --> 01:00:05,020
story that he died of an extended

1460
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:07,300
illness which was supposedly meningitis

1461
01:00:14,450 --> 01:00:11,050
but it took weeks before the I guess the

1462
01:00:16,830 --> 01:00:14,460
coroner's report came back on this

1463
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:16,840
nobody really knows anything was not an

1464
01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:18,850
old guy he was a fairly young man and he

1465
01:00:23,070 --> 01:00:20,470
shouldn't have died when he did but he

1466
01:00:24,750 --> 01:00:23,080
it was just one of one of many things

1467
01:00:28,110 --> 01:00:24,760
that occurred during this period of time

1468
01:00:29,580 --> 01:00:28,120
that were very very strange and again I

1469
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:29,590
need day I'm getting ahead of myself

1470
01:00:34,290 --> 01:00:32,290
again so I need to kind of back up when

1471
01:00:35,910 --> 01:00:34,300
all of this was going on with the

1472
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:35,920
bugging that's when Arnold finally

1473
01:00:39,690 --> 01:00:38,290
decided it's time to call in some

1474
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:39,700
professionals he remembered the phone

1475
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:42,850
number he had for the two Army Air Force

1476
01:00:48,900 --> 01:00:46,510
officers he called I guess it was

1477
01:00:51,810 --> 01:00:48,910
Davidson he called and he called him at

1478
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:51,820
McCord field which in today McChord Air

1479
01:00:58,320 --> 01:00:54,730
Force Base and when Davidson answered

1480
01:01:01,050 --> 01:00:58,330
the phone he he said look I want to talk

1481
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:01,060
to you about this but not at this moment

1482
01:01:05,250 --> 01:01:02,710
he said let me call you from a different

1483
01:01:06,780 --> 01:01:05,260
phone he actually left his office went

1484
01:01:08,370 --> 01:01:06,790
to a different I guess to a payphone and

1485
01:01:10,050 --> 01:01:08,380
calling I'll back it was almost as

1486
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:10,060
though he was worried that his phone was

1487
01:01:13,980 --> 01:01:12,730
bugged so this whole thing they all made

1488
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:13,990
a point of this during the interview I

1489
01:01:17,670 --> 01:01:16,090
think he also made a point of it in in

1490
01:01:19,620 --> 01:01:17,680
his book the coming of the saucers this

1491
01:01:22,200 --> 01:01:19,630
was something that really freaked the

1492
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:22,210
guy out that he's trying to talk to this

1493
01:01:26,730 --> 01:01:24,970
army officer about his room being bugged

1494
01:01:28,170 --> 01:01:26,740
and about these two shady characters are

1495
01:01:30,330 --> 01:01:28,180
telling him this story and he doesn't

1496
01:01:33,450 --> 01:01:30,340
know what to believe and this army

1497
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:33,460
officer is basically saying look maybe

1498
01:01:39,020 --> 01:01:35,290
this isn't a secure line let me call it

1499
01:01:41,370 --> 01:01:39,030
from a different phone line so anyway he

1500
01:01:44,160 --> 01:01:41,380
these two guys show up

1501
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:44,170
dania Davidson and brown the two army

1502
01:01:48,540 --> 01:01:46,960
officers they interview Chrisman and all

1503
01:01:49,920 --> 01:01:48,550
Chrisman tells him actually

1504
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:49,930
doll takes off when he finds that the

1505
01:01:53,850 --> 01:01:52,090
army is showing up he splits you don't

1506
01:01:56,160 --> 01:01:53,860
want anything to do with this Chrisman

1507
01:01:58,500 --> 01:01:56,170
sits and talks to these two guys as soon

1508
01:02:00,660 --> 01:01:58,510
as he's done with his story they look at

1509
01:02:02,370 --> 01:02:00,670
each other and they make an excuse to

1510
01:02:04,590 --> 01:02:02,380
leave like look well we got it we got to

1511
01:02:07,410 --> 01:02:04,600
leave with Luna flew in on an army

1512
01:02:08,970 --> 01:02:07,420
transport you know we need to get this

1513
01:02:11,580 --> 01:02:08,980
plane back to an air show the next day

1514
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:11,590
supposedly it was the the ceremony for

1515
01:02:15,030 --> 01:02:13,570
Air Force a for the air force separating

1516
01:02:16,860 --> 01:02:15,040
from the army at that time they were

1517
01:02:20,070 --> 01:02:16,870
becoming a separate entity and they did

1518
01:02:22,860 --> 01:02:20,080
in 1947 and they they use this as an

1519
01:02:25,770 --> 01:02:22,870
excuse to leave the feeling you get from

1520
01:02:27,570 --> 01:02:25,780
this is that these two guys picked

1521
01:02:29,910 --> 01:02:27,580
something up in Christman's narrative

1522
01:02:32,010 --> 01:02:29,920
that didn't make sense to them or that

1523
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:32,020
they felt was very suspicious you know

1524
01:02:37,770 --> 01:02:34,090
what suspicious that is the weight that

1525
01:02:40,410 --> 01:02:37,780
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1526
01:02:48,450 --> 01:02:40,420
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01:06:01,839 --> 01:05:58,759
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1610
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Biomet the biomat is an fda registered

1611
01:06:05,289 --> 01:06:03,409
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1612
01:06:07,509 --> 01:06:05,299
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1613
01:06:09,159 --> 01:06:07,519
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1614
01:06:11,679 --> 01:06:09,169
ions with the incredible healing power

1615
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:11,689
of amethyst crystals a bio mat can boost

1616
01:06:15,180 --> 01:06:13,210
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1617
01:06:17,310 --> 01:06:15,190
and stiffness reduced stress and fatigue

1618
01:06:19,410 --> 01:06:17,320
and assists in detoxifying your body

1619
01:06:21,720 --> 01:06:19,420
join the thousands of people reporting

1620
01:06:24,210 --> 01:06:21,730
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1621
01:06:24,990 --> 01:06:24,220
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1622
01:06:26,550 --> 01:06:25,000
much more

1623
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:26,560
each biomat comes with a lifetime

1624
01:06:36,780 --> 01:06:28,690
trading and three-year warranty

1625
01:06:41,880 --> 01:06:39,600
nine four four eight six nine two that's

1626
01:06:44,790 --> 01:06:41,890
three six zero nine four four eight six

1627
01:06:49,940 --> 01:06:44,800
nine to visit bio - Matt's calm today

1628
01:06:55,650 --> 01:06:53,520
we'd like to hear from you if you have a

1629
01:06:59,940 --> 01:06:55,660
comment or question about the para cast

1630
01:07:04,050 --> 01:06:59,950
sent it to news at the para cast com

1631
01:07:06,330 --> 01:07:04,060
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

1632
01:07:09,150 --> 01:07:06,340
if you'd like to catch up on past

1633
01:07:11,940 --> 01:07:09,160
episodes we have hundreds of shows for

1634
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:11,950
you to download direct from the para

1635
01:07:18,030 --> 01:07:13,570
cast com

1636
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:18,040
that's the para cast dot-com or check us

1637
01:07:24,060 --> 01:07:21,250
out at iTunes

1638
01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:24,070
we have Kurt's awfully with gene and

1639
01:07:29,130 --> 01:07:26,290
Chris in the power cast retracing the

1640
01:07:31,770 --> 01:07:29,140
incredible Maury Island incident and

1641
01:07:34,859 --> 01:07:31,780
what happened all this by plate it reads

1642
01:07:37,380 --> 01:07:34,869
almost like a spy novel doesn't it by

1643
01:07:38,580 --> 01:07:37,390
now and that even yeah like something

1644
01:07:41,790 --> 01:07:38,590
out of The X Files

1645
01:07:43,620 --> 01:07:41,800
yeah exactly I think Chris Carter the

1646
01:07:45,480 --> 01:07:43,630
creator the x-files could have used this

1647
01:07:48,540 --> 01:07:45,490
as a template for the whole series maybe

1648
01:07:51,930 --> 01:07:48,550
he did we were talking about the the

1649
01:07:54,750 --> 01:07:51,940
fact that the two army officers left

1650
01:07:57,570 --> 01:07:54,760
after listening to Chrisman give his

1651
01:07:59,070 --> 01:07:57,580
rendition for the UFO sighting that he

1652
01:08:00,690 --> 01:07:59,080
and all supposedly experienced are

1653
01:08:04,230 --> 01:08:00,700
actually the two separate sightings

1654
01:08:05,700 --> 01:08:04,240
anyway they seem to pick up on something

1655
01:08:07,260 --> 01:08:05,710
in Christmas story that didn't make

1656
01:08:10,830 --> 01:08:07,270
sense or that they didn't believe so

1657
01:08:13,080 --> 01:08:10,840
they decided okay we're leaving didn't

1658
01:08:16,260 --> 01:08:13,090
know what that factor is is the book go

1659
01:08:18,150 --> 01:08:16,270
into it no no one Arnold Arnold himself

1660
01:08:19,979 --> 01:08:18,160
didn't know I asked him about this and

1661
01:08:22,440 --> 01:08:19,989
he said that the only thing they would

1662
01:08:24,300 --> 01:08:22,450
say was look we can't stick around we

1663
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:24,310
have to get our plane back to the to the

1664
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:26,170
airfield because tomorrow is Air Force

1665
01:08:29,610 --> 01:08:27,730
Day we needed as part of a celebration

1666
01:08:31,229 --> 01:08:29,620
which didn't make any sense I mean

1667
01:08:33,599 --> 01:08:31,239
you've got they did they did take the

1668
01:08:35,309 --> 01:08:33,609
box of flag with him yes they did well

1669
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:35,319
and they only took that because Chrisman

1670
01:08:39,269 --> 01:08:37,930
forced it on him he basically shagged I

1671
01:08:41,130 --> 01:08:39,279
think was like a couple of boxes he

1672
01:08:42,539 --> 01:08:41,140
basically said look you know before you

1673
01:08:44,849 --> 01:08:42,549
guys take off I want you to take this

1674
01:08:46,979 --> 01:08:44,859
stuff with you and he kind of forced

1675
01:08:49,019 --> 01:08:46,989
them to take it along anyway they got

1676
01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:49,029
him they got in there their plane it was

1677
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:52,210
a an old bomber and and flew out of

1678
01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:55,810
there and the next day this is Paul

1679
01:08:59,970 --> 01:08:57,489
Lancer is the name of this report Lance

1680
01:09:03,120 --> 01:08:59,980
writes this story they get up there's a

1681
01:09:05,910 --> 01:09:03,130
story in the local paper about this army

1682
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:05,920
plane exploding or crashing and these

1683
01:09:08,970 --> 01:09:06,850
guys dying in it

1684
01:09:11,430 --> 01:09:08,980
and he identifies the two army corps

1685
01:09:13,740 --> 01:09:11,440
officers even though the military had

1686
01:09:15,269 --> 01:09:13,750
not yet released her identity and later

1687
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:15,279
he said he got it from the mysterious

1688
01:09:20,099 --> 01:09:16,930
informant who called the newspaper

1689
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:20,109
office now I understand here in normal

1690
01:09:24,630 --> 01:09:21,850
practice I don't know if this was an

1691
01:09:26,880 --> 01:09:24,640
effect then but now you don't disclose

1692
01:09:29,999 --> 01:09:26,890
the names of the deceased in some kind

1693
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:30,009
of accident until number one their

1694
01:09:34,390 --> 01:09:32,890
family has been notified officially so

1695
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:34,400
in a case here he come

1696
01:09:39,099 --> 01:09:36,890
jump the gun huh yeah well at the time

1697
01:09:40,240 --> 01:09:39,109
you know reporters could do that kind of

1698
01:09:42,039 --> 01:09:40,250
thing and get away with it

1699
01:09:43,780 --> 01:09:42,049
he had a source even though it was an

1700
01:09:45,610 --> 01:09:43,790
anonymous source and either he or they

1701
01:09:46,990 --> 01:09:45,620
didn't care he just thought this is a

1702
01:09:49,360 --> 01:09:47,000
great story

1703
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:49,370
his editor obviously approved it and

1704
01:09:53,740 --> 01:09:51,290
they ran into when he'd ran headline

1705
01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:53,750
front page they cited the mysterious

1706
01:09:58,510 --> 01:09:55,610
informant is saying that the plane may

1707
01:10:01,240 --> 01:09:58,520
have been shot down by gunfire it was

1708
01:10:02,050 --> 01:10:01,250
that all subsequent investigation but in

1709
01:10:05,350 --> 01:10:02,060
the military

1710
01:10:08,770 --> 01:10:05,360
I guess they disclosed that it was a an

1711
01:10:11,050 --> 01:10:08,780
exhaust stack on on one of the one of

1712
01:10:12,669 --> 01:10:11,060
the engines caught fire basically ended

1713
01:10:15,550 --> 01:10:12,679
up tearing the entire wing off the

1714
01:10:18,250 --> 01:10:15,560
aircraft and the plane crashed there

1715
01:10:20,050 --> 01:10:18,260
were two Army Air Corps pilot and the

1716
01:10:22,209 --> 01:10:20,060
officers I guess they were flying his

1717
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:22,219
pilot and co-pilot and there were two

1718
01:10:27,130 --> 01:10:24,290
passengers on board the plane

1719
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:27,140
there was a tech sergeant if I remember

1720
01:10:32,620 --> 01:10:30,170
correctly and a sergeant who those two

1721
01:10:35,320 --> 01:10:32,630
they parachuted out of the aircraft now

1722
01:10:38,340 --> 01:10:35,330
the youngest of the of the forward the

1723
01:10:41,110 --> 01:10:38,350
sergeant was a hitchhiker he was flying

1724
01:10:43,240 --> 01:10:41,120
he was getting her free shuttle service

1725
01:10:45,490 --> 01:10:43,250
by the military from one point to

1726
01:10:48,160 --> 01:10:45,500
another on board this aircraft they got

1727
01:10:50,020 --> 01:10:48,170
out they parachuted to safety the two

1728
01:10:51,850 --> 01:10:50,030
army officers apparently didn't even

1729
01:10:54,189 --> 01:10:51,860
attempt to parachute out and that's a

1730
01:10:55,479 --> 01:10:54,199
big question mark today yet why didn't

1731
01:11:00,090 --> 01:10:55,489
these guys try to get out of that

1732
01:11:02,140 --> 01:11:00,100
aircraft from what I understand in 2007

1733
01:11:03,910 --> 01:11:02,150
investigators went back and read combed

1734
01:11:06,250 --> 01:11:03,920
that location and they were able to find

1735
01:11:07,450 --> 01:11:06,260
some bits of debris from here that was

1736
01:11:10,419 --> 01:11:07,460
the UFO Hunters

1737
01:11:13,479 --> 01:11:10,429
young I think I was there pilot episode

1738
01:11:16,750 --> 01:11:13,489
yeah but the from what I understand the

1739
01:11:18,430 --> 01:11:16,760
initial investigation of the the crash I

1740
01:11:20,520 --> 01:11:18,440
guess they removed most of the debris

1741
01:11:23,649 --> 01:11:20,530
and I guess if there was any any

1742
01:11:25,330 --> 01:11:23,659
fragments from this alleged UFO on board

1743
01:11:27,760 --> 01:11:25,340
that was taken away during the initial

1744
01:11:29,979 --> 01:11:27,770
initial investigation that in case you

1745
01:11:32,500 --> 01:11:29,989
have all of this these two guys dead

1746
01:11:34,600 --> 01:11:32,510
Arnold and Smith are in the office Dahl

1747
01:11:38,439 --> 01:11:34,610
has disappeared he doesn't mean he's

1748
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:38,449
gone Chrisman supposedly gets recalled

1749
01:11:44,860 --> 01:11:42,489
to military duty and sent off to Alaska

1750
01:11:47,109 --> 01:11:44,870
meanwhile Ted Morello the UPI reporter

1751
01:11:49,570 --> 01:11:47,119
is telling

1752
01:11:50,859 --> 01:11:49,580
telling Arnold look I'm trying he's

1753
01:11:52,629 --> 01:11:50,869
saying I'm trying to get to the bottom

1754
01:11:54,939 --> 01:11:52,639
of this I'm using all my network of

1755
01:11:57,010 --> 01:11:54,949
sources and inform us try to find out

1756
01:11:59,320 --> 01:11:57,020
who what's going on here who the mystery

1757
01:12:00,580 --> 01:11:59,330
informant is I'm getting nowhere if I

1758
01:12:03,339 --> 01:12:00,590
were you I'd leave town

1759
01:12:04,300 --> 01:12:03,349
so finally they decided okay we're going

1760
01:12:06,220 --> 01:12:04,310
to get out of town

1761
01:12:08,379 --> 01:12:06,230
Arnold decides he wants to say goodbye

1762
01:12:11,500 --> 01:12:08,389
too dull so now I had to back up on

1763
01:12:12,939 --> 01:12:11,510
something earlier a couple of days

1764
01:12:14,350 --> 01:12:12,949
earlier they'd been they were in town

1765
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:14,360
for like three four days during this

1766
01:12:19,689 --> 01:12:17,090
whole scenario Wendall first talked to

1767
01:12:21,490 --> 01:12:19,699
Arnold he wanted to I don't know what he

1768
01:12:24,490 --> 01:12:21,500
wanted to show him he said he suggested

1769
01:12:28,270 --> 01:12:24,500
that Arnold come out to a house occupied

1770
01:12:30,129 --> 01:12:28,280
by his secretary this was supposedly and

1771
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:30,139
you know one of the more rundown areas

1772
01:12:35,740 --> 01:12:34,130
of town and Arnold got in the car they

1773
01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:35,750
drove over to this place and he said it

1774
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:38,170
was like a nineteen house from like in

1775
01:12:46,359 --> 01:12:41,570
1912 1917 era something like that

1776
01:12:49,209 --> 01:12:46,369
beat-up place furnished with odds and

1777
01:12:50,680 --> 01:12:49,219
ends of furniture there was a woman

1778
01:12:53,310 --> 01:12:50,690
woman working there and I guess she was

1779
01:12:56,310 --> 01:12:53,320
supposedly the secretary for their their

1780
01:13:00,820 --> 01:12:56,320
lumber mill scavenging

1781
01:13:03,930 --> 01:13:00,830
operation and I'm not sure what it was

1782
01:13:07,180 --> 01:13:03,940
Dahl wanted to show him at that time but

1783
01:13:08,859 --> 01:13:07,190
Arnold was there he took a careful look

1784
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:08,869
around he decided the place look I was

1785
01:13:12,939 --> 01:13:11,210
ready to fall apart later when he

1786
01:13:15,010 --> 01:13:12,949
decided he wanted to save when they were

1787
01:13:16,810 --> 01:13:15,020
before he left he told Smith he said I

1788
01:13:19,149 --> 01:13:16,820
want to say goodbye to Dahl he said that

1789
01:13:22,180 --> 01:13:19,159
he for some reason I guess he he trusted

1790
01:13:24,100 --> 01:13:22,190
him more than he trusted Chrisman he he

1791
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:24,110
sort of liked the guy even though he was

1792
01:13:29,379 --> 01:13:27,170
kind of lyrium at the same time he drove

1793
01:13:31,959 --> 01:13:29,389
out to the house in a place was empty

1794
01:13:33,910 --> 01:13:31,969
and not only was it empty there were

1795
01:13:35,589 --> 01:13:33,920
cobwebs all over the place it looked he

1796
01:13:37,780 --> 01:13:35,599
said later it looked like it had not

1797
01:13:39,220 --> 01:13:37,790
been lived in for three months there was

1798
01:13:41,020 --> 01:13:39,230
not a stick of furniture in the place

1799
01:13:43,120 --> 01:13:41,030
there was nobody there the door was

1800
01:13:45,490 --> 01:13:43,130
standing ajar when he drove up okay this

1801
01:13:48,160 --> 01:13:45,500
is the address then that doll had given

1802
01:13:50,770 --> 01:13:48,170
to him yeah look at the place but he

1803
01:13:52,780 --> 01:13:50,780
never visited it before actually he did

1804
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:52,790
yeah he had gone out there with him he

1805
01:13:56,320 --> 01:13:54,650
had that time it didn't look like it

1806
01:13:58,359 --> 01:13:56,330
hadn't been occupied with everybody was

1807
01:14:00,670 --> 01:13:58,369
decrepit but it was furnished and it was

1808
01:14:03,310 --> 01:14:00,680
clean okay now all of a sudden

1809
01:14:06,070 --> 01:14:03,320
days later the place is completely empty

1810
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:06,080
and covered with cobwebs and dirt like

1811
01:14:10,510 --> 01:14:08,330
it had not been inhabited for months

1812
01:14:12,240 --> 01:14:10,520
unless he went into a time warp yeah

1813
01:14:15,220 --> 01:14:12,250
exactly

1814
01:14:16,660 --> 01:14:15,230
Lewis I mean this is one of the freakier

1815
01:14:19,090 --> 01:14:16,670
things that this holds the whole episode

1816
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:19,100
I mean they are old couldn't explain it

1817
01:14:22,150 --> 01:14:20,930
nobody has been able to explain it most

1818
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:22,160
you know most people don't even

1819
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:23,810
acknowledge that this is part of this

1820
01:14:28,540 --> 01:14:25,730
scenario this is just something that is

1821
01:14:30,700 --> 01:14:28,550
so out there that it's better off most

1822
01:14:33,490 --> 01:14:30,710
people figures better off just ignoring

1823
01:14:34,990 --> 01:14:33,500
it than to try to fit it into the the

1824
01:14:37,150 --> 01:14:35,000
rest of the scenario even though the

1825
01:14:39,250 --> 01:14:37,160
rest of the scenario is strange enough

1826
01:14:40,870 --> 01:14:39,260
now the strange enough thing happened

1827
01:14:43,810 --> 01:14:40,880
and let's kind of move the narrative

1828
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:43,820
along here and that is when Arnold left

1829
01:14:49,180 --> 01:14:46,610
he ran into a problem with his plane yes

1830
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:49,190
he did he landed a small airport about

1831
01:14:54,760 --> 01:14:51,410
halfway home being pinion to stop for

1832
01:14:57,070 --> 01:14:54,770
fuel when he went to take off the engine

1833
01:14:58,270 --> 01:14:57,080
seized up he was only a couple of

1834
01:15:00,940 --> 01:14:58,280
hundred feet in the air the engine

1835
01:15:03,550 --> 01:15:00,950
seized up shut off and he was able to

1836
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:03,560
affect a fairly safe crash landing I

1837
01:15:07,180 --> 01:15:04,970
guess he had one of his landing struts

1838
01:15:08,920 --> 01:15:07,190
was damaged but other than that he was

1839
01:15:10,870 --> 01:15:08,930
okay and he was able to repair the

1840
01:15:12,850 --> 01:15:10,880
aircraft fairly quickly and get on home

1841
01:15:15,370 --> 01:15:12,860
he said when I asked him about this he

1842
01:15:17,440 --> 01:15:15,380
said his fuel switch was shut off how

1843
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:17,450
this happened he doesn't know now the

1844
01:15:22,030 --> 01:15:19,010
fuel switch is something turned on

1845
01:15:23,950 --> 01:15:22,040
manually yes it was a manual switch so

1846
01:15:26,260 --> 01:15:23,960
subconsciously he would have had to have

1847
01:15:27,970 --> 01:15:26,270
turned off that switch for this to have

1848
01:15:29,500 --> 01:15:27,980
happened and we'll get into more details

1849
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:29,510
of this in a moment we have Kurt's

1850
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:31,570
awfully with Gene and Chris you're in

1851
01:15:41,009 --> 01:15:39,959
are you tired of searching for great

1852
01:15:44,189 --> 01:15:41,019
talk-radio

1853
01:15:49,200 --> 01:15:44,199
more important search scene overall we

1854
01:15:51,390 --> 01:15:49,210
are the gcn Radio Network ray Perkins a

1855
01:15:54,049 --> 01:15:51,400
reclusive veteran burned out from the

1856
01:15:57,089 --> 01:15:54,059
Gulf War lives tortured by relentless

1857
01:15:59,310 --> 01:15:57,099
perplexing nightmares nightmares of a

1858
01:16:01,560 --> 01:15:59,320
horrific battle in deep space and of a

1859
01:16:04,259 --> 01:16:01,570
mysterious woman suffering and agony for

1860
01:16:08,000 --> 01:16:04,269
her devastated world a woman not yet

1861
01:16:11,430 --> 01:16:08,010
born calling across centuries to him

1862
01:16:14,100 --> 01:16:11,440
then a coincidence leads him to his

1863
01:16:17,220 --> 01:16:14,110
destiny his chance to alter the universe

1864
01:16:18,930 --> 01:16:17,230
attack of the Rockland the former

1865
01:16:21,779 --> 01:16:18,940
fiction editor for Star Wars and Indiana

1866
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:21,789
Jones Robert Simpson writes the soul of

1867
01:16:25,529 --> 01:16:23,920
the novel attack of the Rockets lies in

1868
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:25,539
its heart and passion for building a

1869
01:16:30,540 --> 01:16:27,489
convincing tale of a love that spans the

1870
01:16:33,450 --> 01:16:30,550
galaxy a thrilling storm attack of the

1871
01:16:35,220 --> 01:16:33,460
rocket is available now read a sample

1872
01:16:37,049 --> 01:16:35,230
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1873
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1874
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1875
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1876
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grand science-fiction tradition so

1877
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1878
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1879
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1880
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1881
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1882
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now you're eager for people to buy your

1883
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1884
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1885
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1886
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1887
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1889
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1890
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1891
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1892
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1893
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1894
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1895
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1896
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1897
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1898
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1899
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1900
01:17:52,330 --> 01:17:50,510
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1901
01:17:54,970 --> 01:17:52,340
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1902
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1903
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1904
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1905
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1906
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1907
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1908
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1909
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1910
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1911
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1912
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1913
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1914
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1915
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1916
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1917
01:18:26,709 --> 01:18:25,369
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1918
01:18:29,020 --> 01:18:26,719
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1919
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1920
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1921
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1922
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1923
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1924
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1925
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1926
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1927
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1928
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1929
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1930
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1931
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1932
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1933
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1934
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1935
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1936
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1937
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1938
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1939
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1940
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1941
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1942
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1943
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1944
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1945
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1946
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1947
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1948
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1949
01:19:53,690 --> 01:19:45,230
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1950
01:19:59,119 --> 01:19:56,809
[Music]

1951
01:20:03,550 --> 01:19:59,129
hi my name is Richard Dolan you're

1952
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:06,979
[Music]

1953
01:20:11,860 --> 01:20:09,380
with Jean with Chris we have Kurt's odd

1954
01:20:14,959 --> 01:20:11,870
way of trying to remember the strange

1955
01:20:17,090 --> 01:20:14,969
mystery of Maury island and Kenneth oils

1956
01:20:18,979 --> 01:20:17,100
participation so that's the point to

1957
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:18,989
bring up over and over again we have an

1958
01:20:23,990 --> 01:20:21,930
experienced pilot and I assume then that

1959
01:20:26,630 --> 01:20:24,000
the plane doesn't take off unless you

1960
01:20:28,910 --> 01:20:26,640
turn on the fuel switch exactly I mean

1961
01:20:31,430 --> 01:20:28,920
you need to indeed fuel switch in order

1962
01:20:34,340 --> 01:20:31,440
to fire up the engine and obviously he

1963
01:20:37,610 --> 01:20:34,350
did the engine fired up he had just

1964
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:37,620
filled up the fuel tank and he flew out

1965
01:20:43,520 --> 01:20:41,850
of there and it shut off and he didn't

1966
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:43,530
realize until later that the fuel switch

1967
01:20:48,709 --> 01:20:46,890
was turned off again and he doesn't know

1968
01:20:51,459 --> 01:20:48,719
how this happened he doesn't have any

1969
01:20:53,450 --> 01:20:51,469
recollection of having done it himself

1970
01:20:56,360 --> 01:20:53,460
it's just what another one of these

1971
01:20:59,330 --> 01:20:56,370
bizarre things that occurred and anyway

1972
01:21:01,400 --> 01:20:59,340
he was he was he landed safely took care

1973
01:21:03,709 --> 01:21:01,410
of what minor repairs needed that taken

1974
01:21:05,090 --> 01:21:03,719
care of and flew long home and pretty

1975
01:21:08,510 --> 01:21:05,100
much tried to put the whole episode

1976
01:21:10,550 --> 01:21:08,520
behind him he conferred some with with

1977
01:21:12,620 --> 01:21:10,560
Ray Palmer and to tell you the truth I

1978
01:21:14,600 --> 01:21:12,630
don't I don't think he ever actually did

1979
01:21:16,610 --> 01:21:14,610
put together a detailed report on all of

1980
01:21:17,930 --> 01:21:16,620
this for Palmer well actually they did

1981
01:21:19,910 --> 01:21:17,940
the collaboration would see in the

1982
01:21:21,260 --> 01:21:19,920
coming of the saucers because it was

1983
01:21:23,690 --> 01:21:21,270
included in their book but he never

1984
01:21:26,450 --> 01:21:23,700
actually did an article for the magazine

1985
01:21:28,220 --> 01:21:26,460
did he ever have a subsequent comment

1986
01:21:30,530 --> 01:21:28,230
about what's in the book or just affirm

1987
01:21:32,810 --> 01:21:30,540
what he wrote there now when I talked to

1988
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:32,820
him he just jesus reiterated several

1989
01:21:36,170 --> 01:21:34,890
times like look this stuff happened you

1990
01:21:37,940 --> 01:21:36,180
know you can believe it or you cannot

1991
01:21:40,100 --> 01:21:37,950
believe it you know I'm sick of

1992
01:21:41,180 --> 01:21:40,110
reporters dogging me in fact when I can

1993
01:21:42,920 --> 01:21:41,190
when I talk to him

1994
01:21:46,010 --> 01:21:42,930
the only way I was able actually getting

1995
01:21:49,700 --> 01:21:46,020
to agree to talk to me at all was simply

1996
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:49,710
by kind of making him aware that that I

1997
01:21:53,000 --> 01:21:51,210
was sympathetic to what he had

1998
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:53,010
experienced and that I was also an

1999
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:55,170
aviation enthusiast in fact about the

2000
01:21:59,660 --> 01:21:56,610
first five or ten minutes of the phone

2001
01:22:01,550 --> 01:21:59,670
conversation we just discussed aircraft

2002
01:22:04,190 --> 01:22:01,560
in aviation I had been a crew chief in

2003
01:22:05,690 --> 01:22:04,200
the Air Force on fighter aircraft when I

2004
01:22:08,150 --> 01:22:05,700
was a kid I lived a quarter of a mile

2005
01:22:10,040 --> 01:22:08,160
from an airport I used to beg rides from

2006
01:22:12,050 --> 01:22:10,050
pilots and Cessnas and Piper Cubs all

2007
01:22:14,870 --> 01:22:12,060
the time and when I brought this to his

2008
01:22:16,459 --> 01:22:14,880
attention is added to Nick before that

2009
01:22:18,140 --> 01:22:16,469
was kind of like why should I even talk

2010
01:22:19,360 --> 01:22:18,150
you're just another reporter I hang up

2011
01:22:21,550 --> 01:22:19,370
on reporters I'm sick of

2012
01:22:24,100 --> 01:22:21,560
reporters all they do is hound me they

2013
01:22:26,170 --> 01:22:24,110
pretty much said that and as I explained

2014
01:22:29,380 --> 01:22:26,180
to him they said look I said I read your

2015
01:22:30,550 --> 01:22:29,390
book and I'm sympathetic to what you

2016
01:22:33,700 --> 01:22:30,560
must have gone through and I'd love to

2017
01:22:35,560 --> 01:22:33,710
hear more and then we talked basically

2018
01:22:38,470 --> 01:22:35,570
he just restated pretty much everything

2019
01:22:40,540 --> 01:22:38,480
that he had stated in the book and he

2020
01:22:42,220 --> 01:22:40,550
said I'm at the point in my life he said

2021
01:22:43,540 --> 01:22:42,230
where I just don't he said I don't

2022
01:22:45,550 --> 01:22:43,550
really think about it a whole lot he

2023
01:22:47,530 --> 01:22:45,560
said it's history he said it was strange

2024
01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:47,540
and I asked him about Smith I said you

2025
01:22:51,430 --> 01:22:49,070
still keep in touch and he said they had

2026
01:22:56,890 --> 01:22:51,440
up to that point this is back in it was

2027
01:22:58,930 --> 01:22:56,900
in 1975 or 76 when I interviewed okay so

2028
01:23:02,410 --> 01:22:58,940
we're talking a time here where he was

2029
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:02,420
in his mid to late testes yeah and at

2030
01:23:08,110 --> 01:23:05,360
the time I guess Smith had retired as an

2031
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:08,120
airline pilot and he had been invited to

2032
01:23:12,100 --> 01:23:10,970
his retirement ceremony but something

2033
01:23:15,390 --> 01:23:12,110
there was some kind of conflicting

2034
01:23:18,580 --> 01:23:15,400
expecting schedule and he can make it

2035
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:18,590
and he just you know pretty much there I

2036
01:23:21,550 --> 01:23:20,090
guess at that point that was pretty much

2037
01:23:26,350 --> 01:23:21,560
the last they had been in touch with one

2038
01:23:31,240 --> 01:23:26,360
another but there defected Smith kept

2039
01:23:33,070 --> 01:23:31,250
disappearing with Chrisman that somebody

2040
01:23:34,990 --> 01:23:33,080
was informing the local media the local

2041
01:23:36,580 --> 01:23:35,000
press as to what was going on in the

2042
01:23:38,530 --> 01:23:36,590
room but they couldn't find any bugging

2043
01:23:41,830 --> 01:23:38,540
devices it almost it almost points a

2044
01:23:43,420 --> 01:23:41,840
finger at Smith now Arnold ever feel

2045
01:23:45,820 --> 01:23:43,430
that Smith had betrayed him

2046
01:23:47,620 --> 01:23:45,830
no he didn't he like Smith I mean he

2047
01:23:50,140 --> 01:23:47,630
liked the man immensely and I mean in

2048
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:50,150
all honesty I don't think he would have

2049
01:23:53,590 --> 01:23:52,730
admitted that had it he had even

2050
01:23:55,690 --> 01:23:53,600
suspected it

2051
01:23:57,280 --> 01:23:55,700
he liked the man too much he told me he

2052
01:23:59,620 --> 01:23:57,290
said from the moment I met this guy he

2053
01:24:02,530 --> 01:23:59,630
said he was just a very very likable man

2054
01:24:04,480 --> 01:24:02,540
they just they immediately bonded they

2055
01:24:07,570 --> 01:24:04,490
were they were like personalities he had

2056
01:24:09,190 --> 01:24:07,580
the same kind of sense of humor of

2057
01:24:12,850 --> 01:24:09,200
course they were both pilots they should

2058
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:12,860
they had many things in common and it

2059
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:15,170
was just it was just one of those happy

2060
01:24:19,930 --> 01:24:17,570
friendships that the man fell into at

2061
01:24:22,000 --> 01:24:19,940
that point in time unfortunately maybe

2062
01:24:24,550 --> 01:24:22,010
maybe it wasn't just a happy friendship

2063
01:24:26,380 --> 01:24:24,560
maybe he was set up nobody nobody really

2064
01:24:28,570 --> 01:24:26,390
knows but he didn't want to think that

2065
01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:28,580
he wanted to take the innocent viewpoint

2066
01:24:31,610 --> 01:24:30,330
which is this is my friend

2067
01:24:33,860 --> 01:24:31,620
and that's that did he ever try to

2068
01:24:35,690 --> 01:24:33,870
speculate about yeah what Chrisman and

2069
01:24:38,900 --> 01:24:35,700
Smith were talking about during their

2070
01:24:40,760 --> 01:24:38,910
absences he never really did speculate

2071
01:24:42,350 --> 01:24:40,770
about that he I don't think he wanted to

2072
01:24:45,200 --> 01:24:42,360
speculate about it he didn't want to

2073
01:24:46,850 --> 01:24:45,210
think badly of Smith and even even if

2074
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:46,860
Smith had been going off to confer with

2075
01:24:51,830 --> 01:24:49,290
Chrisman and even if he was the

2076
01:24:54,620 --> 01:24:51,840
informant the mystery man filling the

2077
01:24:55,850 --> 01:24:54,630
median or what was going on I mean what

2078
01:24:57,260 --> 01:24:55,860
was Arnold gonna do about it

2079
01:24:58,880 --> 01:24:57,270
I do know one thing one of the things

2080
01:25:00,910 --> 01:24:58,890
that that Arnold brought up and I think

2081
01:25:03,650 --> 01:25:00,920
he mentioned this in his book as well

2082
01:25:07,340 --> 01:25:03,660
his buddy Colonel Weiland had given him

2083
01:25:09,530 --> 01:25:07,350
a 32 caliber revolver to carry with him

2084
01:25:11,120 --> 01:25:09,540
for personal protection again this is

2085
01:25:14,660 --> 01:25:11,130
during and during a different era when

2086
01:25:17,150 --> 01:25:14,670
you didn't need you know a permit to

2087
01:25:19,520 --> 01:25:17,160
carry a concealed firearm he just simply

2088
01:25:21,710 --> 01:25:19,530
carried it and he had it with him in the

2089
01:25:24,500 --> 01:25:21,720
hotel room and when Smith discovered he

2090
01:25:27,140 --> 01:25:24,510
had a gun on him he was kind of aghast

2091
01:25:29,060 --> 01:25:27,150
said this I think it I think it actually

2092
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:29,070
stunning and all those admitted that he

2093
01:25:32,800 --> 01:25:31,530
said it was like like Smith was totally

2094
01:25:35,690 --> 01:25:32,810
dumbfounded that it was carrying a gun

2095
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:35,700
he didn't make any any any further bones

2096
01:25:40,130 --> 01:25:38,130
about it but the fact that he cannot

2097
01:25:41,870 --> 01:25:40,140
just this guy that he had hooked up with

2098
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:41,880
in a room was carrying a gun kind of

2099
01:25:45,860 --> 01:25:43,770
shocking and I guess he really didn't

2100
01:25:47,030 --> 01:25:45,870
know what to do about that so but there

2101
01:25:48,710 --> 01:25:47,040
were there were so many little elements

2102
01:25:52,250 --> 01:25:48,720
to this whole thing and it just it

2103
01:25:53,000 --> 01:25:52,260
really does smack of something out of

2104
01:25:54,620 --> 01:25:53,010
the x-files

2105
01:25:57,200 --> 01:25:54,630
oh there was one other thing to it when

2106
01:25:59,120 --> 01:25:57,210
before they left before Arnold and Smith

2107
01:26:02,750 --> 01:25:59,130
left town before Chrisman and dull and

2108
01:26:04,790 --> 01:26:02,760
it disappeared and I guess I guess dog

2109
01:26:07,190 --> 01:26:04,800
is later located sitting in a movie

2110
01:26:08,900 --> 01:26:07,200
theater at the end of all of this he

2111
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:08,910
used to go to this particular theater

2112
01:26:11,810 --> 01:26:10,410
all the time and after Arnold had gone

2113
01:26:15,110 --> 01:26:11,820
to this house that turned out to be

2114
01:26:17,270 --> 01:26:15,120
empty he later found dull in a movie in

2115
01:26:19,010 --> 01:26:17,280
his movie theater indologist basically

2116
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:19,020
said let me alone I don't know I don't

2117
01:26:22,820 --> 01:26:20,370
want to deal with this anymore

2118
01:26:25,880 --> 01:26:22,830
I don't really bothered with it doll his

2119
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:25,890
voice supposedly hadn't had run off and

2120
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:28,650
there was an FBI report that was later

2121
01:26:31,430 --> 01:26:29,850
released under the Freedom of

2122
01:26:35,030 --> 01:26:31,440
Information Act and according to the FBI

2123
01:26:37,340 --> 01:26:35,040
report near the boy a I guess was found

2124
01:26:39,350 --> 01:26:37,350
in Montana or someplace in other reports

2125
01:26:41,900 --> 01:26:39,360
that the boy had suffered from amnesia I

2126
01:26:42,899 --> 01:26:41,910
think I wonder about here is the strange

2127
01:26:47,310 --> 01:26:42,909
things that went on

2128
01:26:49,890 --> 01:26:47,320
being basically they have eavesdropping

2129
01:26:52,649 --> 01:26:49,900
going on you have the house which

2130
01:26:54,060 --> 01:26:52,659
suddenly has changed it kind of smells a

2131
01:26:56,129 --> 01:26:54,070
little bit like some kind of crazy

2132
01:26:58,590 --> 01:26:56,139
intelligence operation where somebody

2133
01:27:00,000 --> 01:26:58,600
was playing a game it exactly does and

2134
01:27:02,160 --> 01:27:00,010
and there was eight there was a major

2135
01:27:04,290 --> 01:27:02,170
standard that was brought into this by

2136
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:04,300
Smith this was when Smith disappeared at

2137
01:27:10,110 --> 01:27:06,850
one point he later he actually admitted

2138
01:27:11,610 --> 01:27:10,120
that he had contacted somebody else in

2139
01:27:13,590 --> 01:27:11,620
army intelligence and a business major

2140
01:27:16,439 --> 01:27:13,600
sander who showed up I guess it was on

2141
01:27:17,879 --> 01:27:16,449
the day that smithing and and Arnold

2142
01:27:19,140 --> 01:27:17,889
decided to get out of the town after

2143
01:27:23,100 --> 01:27:19,150
they'd been warned repeatedly they

2144
01:27:26,959 --> 01:27:23,110
should get out of town sander took them

2145
01:27:29,879 --> 01:27:26,969
to a smelting plant outside of the city

2146
01:27:31,500 --> 01:27:29,889
and he had that that samples they still

2147
01:27:34,590 --> 01:27:31,510
had a few samples of this material that

2148
01:27:36,840 --> 01:27:34,600
Chrisman had brought in and sander had

2149
01:27:39,330 --> 01:27:36,850
he took him to this smelting plant and

2150
01:27:41,970 --> 01:27:39,340
Arnold later said there were piles of

2151
01:27:42,750 --> 01:27:41,980
the slag slag like material playing all

2152
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:42,760
over the place

2153
01:27:48,390 --> 01:27:44,770
sander took him up to one particular

2154
01:27:52,290 --> 01:27:48,400
pile which looked very much like the

2155
01:27:53,850 --> 01:27:52,300
stuff that Chrisman had and Arnold

2156
01:27:55,410 --> 01:27:53,860
smelled Iraq he wanted to look at some

2157
01:27:57,090 --> 01:27:55,420
of the other sample piles that were

2158
01:27:58,919 --> 01:27:57,100
laying around and sander got him out of

2159
01:28:00,209 --> 01:27:58,929
there he wouldn't let him look at

2160
01:28:02,250 --> 01:28:00,219
anything else he just ate hustling I

2161
01:28:03,660 --> 01:28:02,260
guess here actually in a military car he

2162
01:28:05,729 --> 01:28:03,670
also went back into the car and they

2163
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:05,739
left and I have to ask you a question

2164
01:28:10,560 --> 01:28:08,050
here as we go along here and that is

2165
01:28:14,459 --> 01:28:10,570
there was a dust-up or Lisa one side

2166
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:14,469
dust-up between Ray Palmer and Edward

2167
01:28:19,020 --> 01:28:16,810
ruppelt because in the book the report

2168
01:28:22,229 --> 01:28:19,030
on unidentified flying objects by Edward

2169
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:22,239
rappelled he talked of Morrie Allen as a

2170
01:28:27,959 --> 01:28:25,330
hoax and in a sense implicated Palmer as

2171
01:28:29,790 --> 01:28:27,969
someone responsible for this hoax didn't

2172
01:28:33,540 --> 01:28:29,800
Arnold have any feelings or mention

2173
01:28:35,370 --> 01:28:33,550
anything about repelled no no II didn't

2174
01:28:38,100 --> 01:28:35,380
he didn't mention repels at all and he

2175
01:28:40,620 --> 01:28:38,110
didn't he didn't think that Palmer was

2176
01:28:42,030 --> 01:28:40,630
anything maybe more than a dupe that he

2177
01:28:44,760 --> 01:28:42,040
was simply duped by the letter that

2178
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:44,770
Chrisman initially sent him and Chrisman

2179
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:47,650
pretty much admitted to the FBI there

2180
01:28:52,020 --> 01:28:50,170
when there was a I guess the Fed sat

2181
01:28:54,680 --> 01:28:52,030
down local agent sat down interviewed

2182
01:28:57,020 --> 01:28:54,690
both doll and Chrisman separately and

2183
01:28:59,459 --> 01:28:57,030
they they kind of said

2184
01:29:01,229 --> 01:28:59,469
or I should say Chrisman said to the

2185
01:29:04,800 --> 01:29:01,239
agent he said look he said I tailored

2186
01:29:07,620 --> 01:29:04,810
the letter to what I thought this guy

2187
01:29:09,770 --> 01:29:07,630
Palmer would want to hear you know you

2188
01:29:12,660 --> 01:29:09,780
knew Palmer was into flying saucers UFOs

2189
01:29:15,000 --> 01:29:12,670
strange phenomena so he's trying to pull

2190
01:29:16,440 --> 01:29:15,010
one over on Ray Palmer that's what it

2191
01:29:18,690 --> 01:29:16,450
sounded like and after that was the

2192
01:29:21,240 --> 01:29:18,700
sense of the FBI agent that had gotten

2193
01:29:25,050 --> 01:29:21,250
out of this too that this was the the

2194
01:29:27,810 --> 01:29:25,060
they basically used Palmer as a way to

2195
01:29:29,820 --> 01:29:27,820
further whatever objective they had in

2196
01:29:31,170 --> 01:29:29,830
mind okay we'll have to look into the

2197
01:29:33,900 --> 01:29:31,180
objective and where it might have gone

2198
01:29:36,540 --> 01:29:33,910
or is going or has gone wherever you

2199
01:29:44,790 --> 01:29:36,550
want to say about with Curt 7li and Jean

2200
01:29:47,190 --> 01:29:44,800
and Chris you're in a paragraph the gzn

2201
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2202
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hard-hitting talk radio G C and great

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2250
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2251
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dark house that looks like no one is

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2255
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2256
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from outside it looks like someone is

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home watching TV fake TV plugs in just

2260
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like a lamp on a timer but is far more

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convincing to burglars fake TV deters

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eight today so was Maury island really

2298
01:34:12,850 --> 01:34:10,490
an insidious hoax that unfortunately

2299
01:34:14,500 --> 01:34:12,860
resulted and the deaths of a couple of

2300
01:34:17,350 --> 01:34:14,510
people and might have claimed the third

2301
01:34:19,900 --> 01:34:17,360
had Arnold not made that crash landing

2302
01:34:22,630 --> 01:34:19,910
we have Kurt subtly with gene and Chris

2303
01:34:26,650 --> 01:34:22,640
trying to sort out this mystery so in

2304
01:34:29,460 --> 01:34:26,660
retrospect here who was friendly

2305
01:34:33,070 --> 01:34:29,470
Chrisman I mean this guy shows up

2306
01:34:34,900 --> 01:34:33,080
allegedly as a possible suspect or

2307
01:34:37,660 --> 01:34:34,910
person of interest in the Kennedy

2308
01:34:40,870 --> 01:34:37,670
assassination he had a talk show you

2309
01:34:43,450 --> 01:34:40,880
know even passing Arnold we'll get on to

2310
01:34:46,710 --> 01:34:43,460
crispin in a moment so Arnold basically

2311
01:34:49,270 --> 01:34:46,720
tells you in your conversation

2312
01:34:52,320 --> 01:34:49,280
everything in that book is it he doesn't

2313
01:34:55,330 --> 01:34:52,330
have much more to add now Arnold himself

2314
01:34:57,010 --> 01:34:55,340
he I guess was sort of a UFO

2315
01:34:59,350 --> 01:34:57,020
investigator for a while then he drifted

2316
01:35:01,860 --> 01:34:59,360
away he tried to run for lieutenant

2317
01:35:04,300 --> 01:35:01,870
governor of his home state and he lost

2318
01:35:07,270 --> 01:35:04,310
maybe because he was the flying saucer

2319
01:35:09,220 --> 01:35:07,280
candidate that's very possible

2320
01:35:10,930 --> 01:35:09,230
you know with the public who knows I

2321
01:35:13,840 --> 01:35:10,940
would I would say that probably didn't

2322
01:35:14,230 --> 01:35:13,850
help his chances and he don't think it

2323
01:35:18,250 --> 01:35:14,240
would

2324
01:35:20,800 --> 01:35:18,260
so no probably not now as far as

2325
01:35:24,070 --> 01:35:20,810
Arnold's own reaction what did he think

2326
01:35:25,780 --> 01:35:24,080
was responsible for Rory Island and all

2327
01:35:27,520 --> 01:35:25,790
the things that happened he have a final

2328
01:35:30,189 --> 01:35:27,530
opinion when you talk to him

2329
01:35:32,229 --> 01:35:30,199
what 25 28 years later he was just

2330
01:35:34,049 --> 01:35:32,239
completely baffled even even after all

2331
01:35:36,760 --> 01:35:34,059
those years he was he was absolutely

2332
01:35:39,339 --> 01:35:36,770
baffled by everything that happened the

2333
01:35:41,200 --> 01:35:39,349
the fact that somebody was contacting

2334
01:35:42,939 --> 01:35:41,210
the local media two local press I should

2335
01:35:46,419 --> 01:35:42,949
say because it really wasn't media per

2336
01:35:50,260 --> 01:35:46,429
se in that time other than radio did

2337
01:35:52,810 --> 01:35:50,270
that he that Arnold in Chrisman compete

2338
01:35:54,310 --> 01:35:52,820
he had a strong feeling that these two

2339
01:35:56,500 --> 01:35:54,320
guys were up to something

2340
01:35:59,200 --> 01:35:56,510
that the story they were giving him was

2341
01:36:01,779 --> 01:35:59,210
so much BS but he couldn't prove it and

2342
01:36:03,279 --> 01:36:01,789
he really I think deep down he really

2343
01:36:04,779 --> 01:36:03,289
was hoping that what they were telling

2344
01:36:07,209 --> 01:36:04,789
him was a truth because it would have

2345
01:36:10,209 --> 01:36:07,219
been something to further corroborate

2346
01:36:12,279 --> 01:36:10,219
his own sighting and is that why he did

2347
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:12,289
this because he was hoping to validate

2348
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:15,170
what happened to him I think partly he

2349
01:36:18,310 --> 01:36:16,730
didn't he didn't say that that I got the

2350
01:36:21,129 --> 01:36:18,320
sense that yeah maybe that was partly

2351
01:36:22,720 --> 01:36:21,139
that the case but again it goes back to

2352
01:36:25,120 --> 01:36:22,730
the fact that this guy was a true

2353
01:36:28,750 --> 01:36:25,130
patriot I mean listen if he had not

2354
01:36:31,359 --> 01:36:28,760
injured his knee early on when he was

2355
01:36:33,339 --> 01:36:31,369
playing football I mean he was he was a

2356
01:36:34,990 --> 01:36:33,349
world-class athlete in other ways I mean

2357
01:36:37,029 --> 01:36:35,000
this guy could have been Captain America

2358
01:36:37,270 --> 01:36:37,039
you know that's the kind of person he

2359
01:36:39,459 --> 01:36:37,280
was

2360
01:36:42,069 --> 01:36:39,469
you know you you dig into this guy's

2361
01:36:43,750 --> 01:36:42,079
background and I'm sure whatever dossier

2362
01:36:45,609 --> 01:36:43,760
the feds may have put together on him

2363
01:36:47,950 --> 01:36:45,619
that's probably what what they some diss

2364
01:36:50,649 --> 01:36:47,960
up as you know that this guy is a

2365
01:36:53,439 --> 01:36:50,659
true-blue Patriot he's an American an

2366
01:36:55,330 --> 01:36:53,449
American spirit he has nothing but but

2367
01:36:58,000 --> 01:36:55,340
the the good of the country at heart and

2368
01:37:00,549 --> 01:36:58,010
he ends up getting caught up in this

2369
01:37:03,450 --> 01:37:00,559
whatever was going on out in Tacoma with

2370
01:37:05,649 --> 01:37:03,460
with fredchristman and Harold Dahl and

2371
01:37:07,870 --> 01:37:05,659
the more you look at it the more it

2372
01:37:12,549 --> 01:37:07,880
looks like this was something that that

2373
01:37:14,709 --> 01:37:12,559
Chrisman orchestrated maybe at the

2374
01:37:16,270 --> 01:37:14,719
behest of somebody else because there

2375
01:37:18,850 --> 01:37:16,280
and you had just touched on this briefly

2376
01:37:21,270 --> 01:37:18,860
there are stories that Chrisman may have

2377
01:37:26,560 --> 01:37:21,280
been some sort of government operative

2378
01:37:28,000 --> 01:37:26,570
he was subpoenaed during the garrison

2379
01:37:31,000 --> 01:37:28,010
investigation with the Kennedy

2380
01:37:33,669 --> 01:37:31,010
assassination as supposedly he was one

2381
01:37:35,950 --> 01:37:33,679
of the mysterious tramps that showed up

2382
01:37:39,120 --> 01:37:35,960
at Dealey Plaza was I guess identified

2383
01:37:41,229 --> 01:37:39,130
in one of the photos at being such and

2384
01:37:44,379 --> 01:37:41,239
later he when he was suppose

2385
01:37:46,120 --> 01:37:44,389
to have gone off to Alaska after being

2386
01:37:49,029 --> 01:37:46,130
rien ducted in the military at the end

2387
01:37:50,859 --> 01:37:49,039
of the whole mario island episode the

2388
01:37:54,160 --> 01:37:50,869
the rumors suggest that he didn't go to

2389
01:37:56,109 --> 01:37:54,170
Alaska he ended up in Korea and it

2390
01:37:58,029 --> 01:37:56,119
nobody really seems to know exactly

2391
01:38:00,819 --> 01:37:58,039
where this guy was for a period of time

2392
01:38:04,390 --> 01:38:00,829
and then suddenly ends up back in Tacoma

2393
01:38:07,299 --> 01:38:04,400
again he takes on the persona of a radio

2394
01:38:09,069 --> 01:38:07,309
a late-night radio talk show host I

2395
01:38:13,779 --> 01:38:09,079
guess John Gould was his name and he was

2396
01:38:15,430 --> 01:38:13,789
a real son of a you know on the

2397
01:38:17,709 --> 01:38:15,440
air and supposedly he was shot at

2398
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:17,719
several times probably because of his

2399
01:38:22,239 --> 01:38:19,730
abrasive nature on the air was he like

2400
01:38:23,799 --> 01:38:22,249
an early Howard Stern yeah yeah that's

2401
01:38:27,149 --> 01:38:23,809
the sense you get of this he was he was

2402
01:38:29,770 --> 01:38:27,159
very much your almost your stereotypical

2403
01:38:32,799 --> 01:38:29,780
Howard Stern kind of character in shock

2404
01:38:34,270 --> 01:38:32,809
job Hayden yeah exactly but he predated

2405
01:38:36,069 --> 01:38:34,280
all of these people by a good many years

2406
01:38:38,739 --> 01:38:36,079
and he pissed some people off and

2407
01:38:41,140 --> 01:38:38,749
supposedly I think was John Q actually

2408
01:38:43,450 --> 01:38:41,150
dug into that a little bit and said that

2409
01:38:44,649 --> 01:38:43,460
that Kristen was shot at probably

2410
01:38:48,129 --> 01:38:44,659
because of some comments he made about

2411
01:38:50,189 --> 01:38:48,139
somebody on the air but again there was

2412
01:38:53,529 --> 01:38:50,199
so much about this guy that was just

2413
01:38:56,950 --> 01:38:53,539
strange and vague and you do get the

2414
01:38:59,770 --> 01:38:56,960
sense that he was a player maybe like a

2415
01:39:03,189 --> 01:38:59,780
mid-level player in some higher game he

2416
01:39:05,259 --> 01:39:03,199
was like an early Richard Doty yeah like

2417
01:39:07,359 --> 01:39:05,269
who I mean who exactly he worked for was

2418
01:39:10,149 --> 01:39:07,369
did he work for the CIA did he work for

2419
01:39:11,950 --> 01:39:10,159
you know for somebody else I mean the

2420
01:39:14,350 --> 01:39:11,960
FBI was they could be the field agent

2421
01:39:16,689 --> 01:39:14,360
that investigated he he put in the

2422
01:39:18,609 --> 01:39:16,699
report that he was convinced that these

2423
01:39:20,589 --> 01:39:18,619
two guys were not telling the entire

2424
01:39:22,870 --> 01:39:20,599
truth about what they what they knew

2425
01:39:25,649 --> 01:39:22,880
that they were they were either making

2426
01:39:27,879 --> 01:39:25,659
something up or they were just you know

2427
01:39:29,470 --> 01:39:27,889
they were just not not telling

2428
01:39:30,910 --> 01:39:29,480
everything before we go back to that

2429
01:39:33,489 --> 01:39:30,920
let's kind of wrap up with Kenneth

2430
01:39:34,930 --> 01:39:33,499
Arnold at the end of his days and you

2431
01:39:38,020 --> 01:39:34,940
talked to him a few years before he

2432
01:39:41,649 --> 01:39:38,030
passed did he have a final opinion as to

2433
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:41,659
what was responsible for UFOs no he

2434
01:39:47,470 --> 01:39:43,730
didn't he he was not the kind of guy

2435
01:39:51,040 --> 01:39:47,480
that was going to venture an opinion

2436
01:39:53,410 --> 01:39:51,050
like that he he he said at the time he

2437
01:39:54,849 --> 01:39:53,420
felt that this had to be some sort of

2438
01:39:57,069 --> 01:39:54,859
foreign aircraft

2439
01:39:58,479 --> 01:39:57,079
and they kept going back to the idea

2440
01:40:00,549 --> 01:39:58,489
this is something that the Russians had

2441
01:40:03,429 --> 01:40:00,559
manufactured because at that that was at

2442
01:40:04,929 --> 01:40:03,439
the point in time were the hostilities

2443
01:40:07,270 --> 01:40:04,939
between our country and the Soviet Union

2444
01:40:10,060 --> 01:40:07,280
we're starting to really emerge so he

2445
01:40:12,189 --> 01:40:10,070
didn't think in terms of et at all no he

2446
01:40:13,839 --> 01:40:12,199
didn't really I think I think that was

2447
01:40:15,609 --> 01:40:13,849
something that was kind of put into his

2448
01:40:16,869 --> 01:40:15,619
head during the weeks and the months

2449
01:40:19,540 --> 01:40:16,879
that followed when all the other

2450
01:40:21,189 --> 01:40:19,550
sightings began to occur when people

2451
01:40:23,859 --> 01:40:21,199
work they started talking about flying

2452
01:40:26,500 --> 01:40:23,869
saucers and unidentified flying objects

2453
01:40:29,619 --> 01:40:26,510
and I guess it also had during that

2454
01:40:31,389 --> 01:40:29,629
Creed the various green fireball

2455
01:40:33,459 --> 01:40:31,399
sightings of recurring in the southwest

2456
01:40:34,869 --> 01:40:33,469
right there's a lot of a lot of read

2457
01:40:37,089 --> 01:40:34,879
weird things were having

2458
01:40:39,429 --> 01:40:37,099
what's he aware of the Horton brothers a

2459
01:40:42,489 --> 01:40:39,439
flying wing design that was operational

2460
01:40:44,139 --> 01:40:42,499
in the mid to late 40s you know I never

2461
01:40:46,179 --> 01:40:44,149
that's a good question I never thought

2462
01:40:48,159 --> 01:40:46,189
they'd ask him that but having been a

2463
01:40:50,349 --> 01:40:48,169
private pilot the professional pilot in

2464
01:40:52,089 --> 01:40:50,359
many ways I'm sure he was I mean there

2465
01:40:53,589 --> 01:40:52,099
were very few pilots during that period

2466
01:40:56,159 --> 01:40:53,599
that didn't know about the Horton

2467
01:40:59,109 --> 01:40:56,169
brothers in a freer for your listeners

2468
01:41:01,899 --> 01:40:59,119
the Horton brothers were German

2469
01:41:03,909 --> 01:41:01,909
innovators who developed the original

2470
01:41:06,669 --> 01:41:03,919
flying wing they also had a number of

2471
01:41:11,020 --> 01:41:06,679
other designs that were very very well

2472
01:41:11,889 --> 01:41:11,030
in advance of their time and the them in

2473
01:41:13,389 --> 01:41:11,899
there were rumors that they were

2474
01:41:16,229 --> 01:41:13,399
actually brought back to this country

2475
01:41:19,479 --> 01:41:16,239
that they worked worked on the original

2476
01:41:21,819 --> 01:41:19,489
flying wing that that was developed by

2477
01:41:23,739 --> 01:41:21,829
by the Air Force Marcia Tagus was

2478
01:41:26,079 --> 01:41:23,749
actually developed by by Northrop

2479
01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:26,089
Aviation for the Air Force and yeah

2480
01:41:31,479 --> 01:41:29,209
because the fine wing it looked a lot

2481
01:41:33,819 --> 01:41:31,489
like the drawings that were made of the

2482
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:33,829
Arnold incident yeah and I think if you

2483
01:41:38,889 --> 01:41:35,570
study the specifications and dimensions

2484
01:41:41,159 --> 01:41:38,899
are very similar as well but that old

2485
01:41:44,020 --> 01:41:41,169
business with the flying wing that the

2486
01:41:46,540 --> 01:41:44,030
the original flying wing that the Air

2487
01:41:49,899 --> 01:41:46,550
Force was flying they had a number of

2488
01:41:56,319 --> 01:41:49,909
accidents with that one pilot was killed

2489
01:41:58,899 --> 01:41:56,329
and his when he died they renamed Muroc

2490
01:42:00,669 --> 01:41:58,909
airfield into his honor isn't it was the

2491
01:42:03,039 --> 01:42:00,679
captain Edwards and then renamed you're

2492
01:42:05,979 --> 01:42:03,049
again fueled Edwards Air Force Base

2493
01:42:10,929 --> 01:42:05,989
Edwards field at the time and but I

2494
01:42:12,519 --> 01:42:10,939
guess many years later when Jim Northrup

2495
01:42:14,679 --> 01:42:12,529
Agassi's name was a head of the company

2496
01:42:17,439 --> 01:42:14,689
when he was dying he he said on his

2497
01:42:18,939 --> 01:42:17,449
deathbed that Stuart Symington who is

2498
01:42:20,919 --> 01:42:18,949
the Secretary of the Air Force at the

2499
01:42:23,949 --> 01:42:20,929
time canceled the flying wing wing

2500
01:42:26,049 --> 01:42:23,959
program for no particular reason insist

2501
01:42:27,969 --> 01:42:26,059
it was all political and it kind of

2502
01:42:30,329 --> 01:42:27,979
makes you wonder because they basically

2503
01:42:32,829 --> 01:42:30,339
they ended up literally destroying

2504
01:42:34,149 --> 01:42:32,839
virtually Harry every flying wing that

2505
01:42:36,549 --> 01:42:34,159
had been operational they had built

2506
01:42:38,349 --> 01:42:36,559
first reciprocating models there were

2507
01:42:39,699 --> 01:42:38,359
two or three of those then I think one

2508
01:42:41,709 --> 01:42:39,709
or two of them were converted to jet

2509
01:42:44,079 --> 01:42:41,719
aircraft and they flew fairly well and

2510
01:42:46,809 --> 01:42:44,089
all of that was destroyed until today

2511
01:42:50,589 --> 01:42:46,819
until until the 1990s I should say when

2512
01:42:52,599 --> 01:42:50,599
they built the new b2 which again is is

2513
01:42:54,069 --> 01:42:52,609
simply a variation on that design again

2514
01:42:55,689 --> 01:42:54,079
the dimensions are almost the same so

2515
01:42:57,839 --> 01:42:55,699
all of this does trace back kind of to

2516
01:43:00,609 --> 01:42:57,849
the Horton brothers during World War two

2517
01:43:03,369 --> 01:43:00,619
now looking over our know that he ever

2518
01:43:05,109 --> 01:43:03,379
voice any comments or opinions about Ray

2519
01:43:07,689 --> 01:43:05,119
Palmer because Palmer of course had some

2520
01:43:10,719 --> 01:43:07,699
pretty exotic things to say about UFOs

2521
01:43:12,669 --> 01:43:10,729
now he has contact with Palmer was

2522
01:43:14,169 --> 01:43:12,679
limited it was simply that that scenario

2523
01:43:15,879 --> 01:43:14,179
where they ended up where he ended up

2524
01:43:18,489 --> 01:43:15,889
going and doing the investigation for

2525
01:43:21,879 --> 01:43:18,499
Palmer and then of course when they when

2526
01:43:23,469 --> 01:43:21,889
it got together and and I I get the I

2527
01:43:25,599 --> 01:43:23,479
get the feeling that Palmer pretty much

2528
01:43:27,729 --> 01:43:25,609
wrote the book but he just simply wrote

2529
01:43:29,649 --> 01:43:27,739
it with Arnold's input so basically

2530
01:43:31,239 --> 01:43:29,659
Arnold may have given him the notes and

2531
01:43:33,429 --> 01:43:31,249
the information yeah maybe the

2532
01:43:34,959 --> 01:43:33,439
recordings and Palmer but it's kind of

2533
01:43:37,149 --> 01:43:34,969
like shaver kind of like the shaver

2534
01:43:39,579 --> 01:43:37,159
mystery where Ray Palmer wrote all this

2535
01:43:41,739 --> 01:43:39,589
stuff under the signature of Richard

2536
01:43:43,599 --> 01:43:41,749
shaver but he of course just took

2537
01:43:46,000 --> 01:43:43,609
shavers notes which were very rough

2538
01:43:48,069 --> 01:43:46,010
shaver was not a really great fiction

2539
01:43:49,269 --> 01:43:48,079
writer or a great writer in general I

2540
01:43:51,129 --> 01:43:49,279
guess he was better in his later years

2541
01:43:53,139 --> 01:43:51,139
by the way there are lots of ways to

2542
01:43:54,909 --> 01:43:53,149
contact us here at the power cast you

2543
01:43:57,879 --> 01:43:54,919
can write us Neil was at the power cast

2544
01:44:00,489 --> 01:43:57,889
calm that's news at the power cast calm

2545
01:44:03,399 --> 01:44:00,499
you can send us a tweet the power cast

2546
01:44:06,009 --> 01:44:03,409
what else can we be the power casts on

2547
01:44:08,019 --> 01:44:06,019
twitter or check out our forums forum

2548
01:44:10,269 --> 01:44:08,029
dr. the power cast calm

2549
01:44:13,629 --> 01:44:10,279
once again that's forum dot the power

2550
01:44:14,049 --> 01:44:13,639
cast calm sign up get in on all the

2551
01:44:16,779 --> 01:44:14,059
action

2552
01:44:21,190 --> 01:44:16,789
we have Kurt suddenly joining us Jean

2553
01:44:30,129 --> 01:44:27,909
[Music]

2554
01:44:33,529 --> 01:44:30,139
America's number one source for

2555
01:44:38,779 --> 01:44:33,539
independent authoring for over a decade

2556
01:44:40,279 --> 01:44:38,789
we are the gcn radio network hi Ted

2557
01:44:42,469 --> 01:44:40,289
Anderson announcing a great way to

2558
01:44:44,659 --> 01:44:42,479
listen to radio on the telephone by

2559
01:44:46,729 --> 01:44:44,669
calling seven six oh five six nine

2560
01:44:49,310 --> 01:44:46,739
seventy seven hundred you'll be hearing

2561
01:44:51,770 --> 01:44:49,320
juicy and live.com programs in seconds

2562
01:44:54,139 --> 01:44:51,780
come to GC and live.com find your

2563
01:44:57,049 --> 01:44:54,149
favorite host dedicated phone number and

2564
01:44:59,569 --> 01:44:57,059
hear them 24/7 you heard me right every

2565
01:45:02,149 --> 01:44:59,579
show has a dedicated phone number stop

2566
01:45:04,489 --> 01:45:02,159
by GC and live.com and bookmark their

2567
01:45:06,909 --> 01:45:04,499
number today and again that's seven six

2568
01:45:09,529 --> 01:45:06,919
oh five six nine seventy seven hundred

2569
01:45:11,629 --> 01:45:09,539
we the people grow cotton wheat fabric

2570
01:45:13,250 --> 01:45:11,639
engraving can bed strips and fibers to

2571
01:45:14,989 --> 01:45:13,260
protect from counterfeit and carding to

2572
01:45:15,469 --> 01:45:14,999
a private bank having a led back at

2573
01:45:17,209 --> 01:45:15,479
interest

2574
01:45:19,100 --> 01:45:17,219
forcing taxes to service debt this

2575
01:45:20,540 --> 01:45:19,110
capitalism was Jefferson correct when

2576
01:45:22,189 --> 01:45:20,550
stating a central bank issuing the

2577
01:45:23,299 --> 01:45:22,199
public currency is a greater menace to

2578
01:45:24,679 --> 01:45:23,309
the liberties of the people than a

2579
01:45:26,120 --> 01:45:24,689
standing army today understand I'm

2580
01:45:27,949 --> 01:45:26,130
placing a free silver dollar in a book

2581
01:45:31,399 --> 01:45:27,959
that explains our monetary system call

2582
01:45:34,580 --> 01:45:31,409
for your copy 800 686 to 237 it's time

2583
01:45:37,880 --> 01:45:34,590
to understand the system call 866 to 237

2584
01:45:43,979 --> 01:45:37,890
that's 800 686 to 237

2585
01:45:51,990 --> 01:45:47,680
welcome back to the para cast the gold

2586
01:45:59,410 --> 01:45:52,000
standard of paranormal radio and now

2587
01:46:01,930 --> 01:45:59,420
here's Jane Steinberg exploring the

2588
01:46:04,209 --> 01:46:01,940
original UFO witness of the modern era

2589
01:46:05,890 --> 01:46:04,219
Kenneth Arnold and the strange Maury

2590
01:46:07,450 --> 01:46:05,900
island case and allow the other things

2591
01:46:09,580 --> 01:46:07,460
with Kurt's all the way with Gene and

2592
01:46:11,530 --> 01:46:09,590
Chris of the power cast okay let's just

2593
01:46:13,450 --> 01:46:11,540
check a couple other things with regard

2594
01:46:15,220 --> 01:46:13,460
to Arnold did he ever see another UFO

2595
01:46:17,470 --> 01:46:15,230
someone asked that question in our

2596
01:46:19,240 --> 01:46:17,480
forums I don't think he ever did I think

2597
01:46:20,550 --> 01:46:19,250
that that one sighting was pretty much

2598
01:46:23,530 --> 01:46:20,560
it

2599
01:46:25,149 --> 01:46:23,540
probably all he wanted that's exactly

2600
01:46:26,860 --> 01:46:25,159
exactly what I was thinking he probably

2601
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:26,870
didn't want to see anything else after

2602
01:46:30,760 --> 01:46:28,850
that and if he had he probably wouldn't

2603
01:46:34,240 --> 01:46:30,770
have reported you know did he have

2604
01:46:36,129 --> 01:46:34,250
regrets over reporting that thing no he

2605
01:46:37,959 --> 01:46:36,139
didn't have any regrets about reporting

2606
01:46:40,689 --> 01:46:37,969
in order or filing the official report

2607
01:46:42,520 --> 01:46:40,699
with the Air Force he again he felt that

2608
01:46:45,310 --> 01:46:42,530
this was his duty this was his

2609
01:46:46,419 --> 01:46:45,320
responsibility to his country it wasn't

2610
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:46,429
they had nothing to do with whether

2611
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:49,489
whether these things were some new type

2612
01:46:54,430 --> 01:46:51,530
of aircraft developed by another country

2613
01:46:55,959 --> 01:46:54,440
or whether they were extraterrestrial or

2614
01:46:58,240 --> 01:46:55,969
whatever this was something that

2615
01:46:59,590 --> 01:46:58,250
regardless of the origin it was

2616
01:47:02,020 --> 01:46:59,600
something that he needed to do because

2617
01:47:03,610 --> 01:47:02,030
it was completely landing she was

2618
01:47:05,530 --> 01:47:03,620
completely strange it may have been a

2619
01:47:08,169 --> 01:47:05,540
threat to national security nobody knew

2620
01:47:10,450 --> 01:47:08,179
so he needed to report all of this and

2621
01:47:12,580 --> 01:47:10,460
when he investigated the home re Island

2622
01:47:14,530 --> 01:47:12,590
thing I think the motivation there was

2623
01:47:16,959 --> 01:47:14,540
exactly the same I think he just once he

2624
01:47:19,930 --> 01:47:16,969
started even though he was panicked half

2625
01:47:21,820 --> 01:47:19,940
the time he didn't he brought in Smith

2626
01:47:22,930 --> 01:47:21,830
because he felt literally felt like he

2627
01:47:24,310 --> 01:47:22,940
was out of his depth with the

2628
01:47:27,330 --> 01:47:24,320
investigation he was not a professional

2629
01:47:29,830 --> 01:47:27,340
investigator he admitted that repeatedly

2630
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:29,840
he just needed to get to the bottom of

2631
01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:32,570
this because it could somehow have an

2632
01:47:37,090 --> 01:47:34,370
impact on national security on the

2633
01:47:38,500 --> 01:47:37,100
country that he loved and the country

2634
01:47:40,930 --> 01:47:38,510
that he loved up until the day he died

2635
01:47:43,840 --> 01:47:40,940
I'm sure now everything about this case

2636
01:47:46,840 --> 01:47:43,850
as I'm saying reeks of some kind of

2637
01:47:49,479 --> 01:47:46,850
military intervention and maybe the

2638
01:47:52,990 --> 01:47:49,489
deaths of those two military officers

2639
01:47:55,570 --> 01:47:53,000
was just an unfortunate accident well he

2640
01:47:56,740 --> 01:47:55,580
according to the abyssion official Army

2641
01:47:59,710 --> 01:47:56,750
Air Force investigation

2642
01:48:02,080 --> 01:47:59,720
the crash of the bomber was an accident

2643
01:48:04,210 --> 01:48:02,090
the series of events the the chronology

2644
01:48:06,490 --> 01:48:04,220
of the events is just it all just

2645
01:48:08,500 --> 01:48:06,500
stacked up so strangely I mean you had

2646
01:48:10,480 --> 01:48:08,510
the yeah these guys going arnold goes

2647
01:48:12,370 --> 01:48:10,490
there he brings in smith they discover

2648
01:48:14,650 --> 01:48:12,380
the room is being bugged or monitored in

2649
01:48:17,200 --> 01:48:14,660
some fashion they can't find a bugging

2650
01:48:17,950 --> 01:48:17,210
device it the me the local press keeps

2651
01:48:20,100 --> 01:48:17,960
calling them

2652
01:48:23,320 --> 01:48:20,110
yeah Chrisman and doll who are obviously

2653
01:48:26,260 --> 01:48:23,330
telling a story maybe a tall tale that

2654
01:48:28,810 --> 01:48:26,270
there they seem to be trying to force

2655
01:48:30,760 --> 01:48:28,820
arnold and smith into believing how are

2656
01:48:32,380 --> 01:48:30,770
these all in any case well of course you

2657
01:48:35,020 --> 01:48:32,390
can look at the elaborate conspiracy

2658
01:48:37,150 --> 01:48:35,030
here that they first give this

2659
01:48:39,220 --> 01:48:37,160
information to palmer maybe not even

2660
01:48:41,770 --> 01:48:39,230
knowing he'd contact arnold but maybe a

2661
01:48:44,920 --> 01:48:41,780
fortuitous circumstance in order to

2662
01:48:47,350 --> 01:48:44,930
discredit this is crazy UFO mystery

2663
01:48:49,030 --> 01:48:47,360
before it got out of hand well you know

2664
01:48:53,020 --> 01:48:49,040
you brought up an interesting point I

2665
01:48:54,910 --> 01:48:53,030
think Arnold was he was he was a pawn he

2666
01:48:57,220 --> 01:48:54,920
was a fortuitous pawn in whatever game

2667
01:48:58,570 --> 01:48:57,230
was being played and I'm not sure but

2668
01:49:01,770 --> 01:48:58,580
I'm not sure that they were trying to

2669
01:49:05,650 --> 01:49:01,780
discredit the UFO mystery I think maybe

2670
01:49:07,780 --> 01:49:05,660
somebody or some agency or agencies saw

2671
01:49:08,770 --> 01:49:07,790
the whole UFO phenomenon I think I think

2672
01:49:12,130 --> 01:49:08,780
it's still the case today

2673
01:49:13,540 --> 01:49:12,140
I think they saw it as a way to kind of

2674
01:49:16,300 --> 01:49:13,550
manipulate things to create a

2675
01:49:18,220 --> 01:49:16,310
smokescreen for other activities and go

2676
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:18,230
back to this business about this lag now

2677
01:49:21,490 --> 01:49:20,210
supposedly the slag was radioactive

2678
01:49:23,620 --> 01:49:21,500
yet there doesn't seem to have been any

2679
01:49:25,270 --> 01:49:23,630
indication from anybody that was

2680
01:49:27,580 --> 01:49:25,280
radioactive that's part of the rumor

2681
01:49:29,410 --> 01:49:27,590
that flew around about this this major

2682
01:49:31,870 --> 01:49:29,420
sander takes him to this smelting plant

2683
01:49:33,790 --> 01:49:31,880
that takes him directly to one pile of

2684
01:49:35,920 --> 01:49:33,800
slag which looks remarkably like what

2685
01:49:37,450 --> 01:49:35,930
Chrisman had in his possession but he

2686
01:49:39,040 --> 01:49:37,460
doesn't let him look at anything else he

2687
01:49:41,590 --> 01:49:39,050
hustles him back into the car and gets

2688
01:49:43,240 --> 01:49:41,600
them away from the smelting plant in I

2689
01:49:44,770 --> 01:49:43,250
guess in opposition to Arnold's

2690
01:49:46,210 --> 01:49:44,780
objections he was like you know let me

2691
01:49:48,310 --> 01:49:46,220
look at some of the other stuff no we

2692
01:49:50,860 --> 01:49:48,320
don't have time let's leave that's kind

2693
01:49:53,470 --> 01:49:50,870
of what went on there it's the whole

2694
01:49:56,410 --> 01:49:53,480
thing smacks of some sort of game that

2695
01:49:58,150 --> 01:49:56,420
was being played and it even today it's

2696
01:49:59,890 --> 01:49:58,160
just baffling it's completely baffling

2697
01:50:01,240 --> 01:49:59,900
what was going on to just have something

2698
01:50:03,580 --> 01:50:01,250
to do with the early Atomic Energy

2699
01:50:06,250 --> 01:50:03,590
Commission you know nobody really seems

2700
01:50:08,140 --> 01:50:06,260
to know well it's almost as if you look

2701
01:50:08,530 --> 01:50:08,150
into a lot of the stuff going on the

2702
01:50:11,980 --> 01:50:08,540
early

2703
01:50:16,000 --> 01:50:11,990
the UFO field you find all these curious

2704
01:50:17,440 --> 01:50:16,010
military connections oh yeah yeah yeah

2705
01:50:20,890 --> 01:50:17,450
they were all over the place for a while

2706
01:50:23,110 --> 01:50:20,900
and and just I know I mean unfortunately

2707
01:50:24,940 --> 01:50:23,120
we're we're so far removed from that era

2708
01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:24,950
now I mean we're you know we're now in

2709
01:50:31,270 --> 01:50:28,130
2012 and we're talking 1947 1948

2710
01:50:34,540 --> 01:50:31,280
timeframe and just like with Roswell I

2711
01:50:36,490 --> 01:50:34,550
mean you can you can look at that you

2712
01:50:39,160 --> 01:50:36,500
can you can investigate until you go

2713
01:50:41,770 --> 01:50:39,170
berserk and you never can quite pin

2714
01:50:45,310 --> 01:50:41,780
anything down I'm in the senses that

2715
01:50:46,360 --> 01:50:45,320
something happened and that in fact it's

2716
01:50:48,850 --> 01:50:46,370
kind of interesting because the whole

2717
01:50:51,250 --> 01:50:48,860
Roswell scenario occurred shortly after

2718
01:50:52,570 --> 01:50:51,260
the Kenneth Arnold sighting in a wreck

2719
01:50:54,820 --> 01:50:52,580
around the time of the Mari island

2720
01:50:58,240 --> 01:50:54,830
business so you have all of these events

2721
01:51:00,400 --> 01:50:58,250
in play and you had the military first

2722
01:51:02,380 --> 01:51:00,410
releasing a report saying that the

2723
01:51:06,030 --> 01:51:02,390
Roswell thing was a crashed flying

2724
01:51:09,460 --> 01:51:06,040
saucer crash flying discs and then

2725
01:51:11,650 --> 01:51:09,470
immediately recant and you get a story

2726
01:51:13,150 --> 01:51:11,660
that this was a high weather balloon and

2727
01:51:16,120 --> 01:51:13,160
it just smacks it almost like a double

2728
01:51:17,980 --> 01:51:16,130
cover-up like they threw out one thing

2729
01:51:19,870 --> 01:51:17,990
then they threw out something else and

2730
01:51:21,310 --> 01:51:19,880
by the time they were finished people

2731
01:51:22,870 --> 01:51:21,320
were so confused you know what and

2732
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:22,880
that's the sense you get in mari island

2733
01:51:28,120 --> 01:51:25,370
- well not to denigrate the possibility

2734
01:51:31,210 --> 01:51:28,130
of UFO reality but you have to wonder if

2735
01:51:33,910 --> 01:51:31,220
UFOs were not occasionally used as an

2736
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:33,920
excuse to cover up something else that

2737
01:51:37,600 --> 01:51:35,690
was going on no telling what's a flying

2738
01:51:39,970 --> 01:51:37,610
saucer we're not going to let them know

2739
01:51:41,920 --> 01:51:39,980
about our secret weapons studies or

2740
01:51:44,410 --> 01:51:41,930
secret aircraft the things we're doing

2741
01:51:48,340 --> 01:51:44,420
with those scientists that came from

2742
01:51:51,640 --> 01:51:48,350
Nazi Germany yeah exactly and you know

2743
01:51:53,260 --> 01:51:51,650
the the whole UFO mystery the whole

2744
01:51:56,500 --> 01:51:53,270
flying saucer mystery because it

2745
01:51:58,960 --> 01:51:56,510
exploded in 1947 would have been viewed

2746
01:52:02,620 --> 01:51:58,970
by I think people in the right places as

2747
01:52:04,480 --> 01:52:02,630
a way to obscure the truth about other

2748
01:52:06,880 --> 01:52:04,490
things I've been working on as you

2749
01:52:08,740 --> 01:52:06,890
suggest and I think I was I think that's

2750
01:52:11,820 --> 01:52:08,750
been the case down through the years I

2751
01:52:15,310 --> 01:52:11,830
think in many instances we've had

2752
01:52:18,220 --> 01:52:15,320
episodes where people have investigated

2753
01:52:19,660 --> 01:52:18,230
flying saucer UFO phenomena and maybe it

2754
01:52:21,560 --> 01:52:19,670
was really something else that occurred

2755
01:52:24,140 --> 01:52:21,570
or maybe maybe that was maybe

2756
01:52:25,609 --> 01:52:24,150
something staged to distract attention

2757
01:52:28,819 --> 01:52:25,619
from something else that might have been

2758
01:52:30,350 --> 01:52:28,829
happening nearby you know again you

2759
01:52:33,109 --> 01:52:30,360
don't know we can we can only speculate

2760
01:52:34,729 --> 01:52:33,119
and it seems likely the people that

2761
01:52:37,160 --> 01:52:34,739
really do start digging into these

2762
01:52:40,069 --> 01:52:37,170
things either tend to clam up after a

2763
01:52:42,770 --> 01:52:40,079
while if they just simply disappear well

2764
01:52:45,020 --> 01:52:42,780
Kurt not I do remember reading that

2765
01:52:48,890 --> 01:52:45,030
Arnold really became a celebrity after

2766
01:52:50,870 --> 01:52:48,900
this and it impacted his business and at

2767
01:52:52,750 --> 01:52:50,880
one point I think he said if he saw like

2768
01:52:54,979 --> 01:52:52,760
a ten story building

2769
01:52:57,050 --> 01:52:54,989
idea he'd never say a word about it

2770
01:52:58,580 --> 01:52:57,060
because it seems like it you know what

2771
01:53:01,310 --> 01:52:58,590
was on his routes that he would fly

2772
01:53:02,600 --> 01:53:01,320
between cities people would find out

2773
01:53:04,339 --> 01:53:02,610
that he was going to arrive and he would

2774
01:53:07,669 --> 01:53:04,349
attract these these huge clouds and the

2775
01:53:09,319 --> 01:53:07,679
notoriety must have been quite a quite

2776
01:53:13,100 --> 01:53:09,329
disconcerting for him did he ever

2777
01:53:16,580 --> 01:53:13,110
mention any regrets about all this no he

2778
01:53:17,930 --> 01:53:16,590
the only regret he he imposed was to say

2779
01:53:19,399 --> 01:53:17,940
that he just simply didn't talk to

2780
01:53:21,080 --> 01:53:19,409
people about her any more than when I

2781
01:53:22,970 --> 01:53:21,090
talked to him in the film that was he

2782
01:53:25,939 --> 01:53:22,980
merely tried to brush me off when he's

2783
01:53:27,979 --> 01:53:25,949
like well who are you and identified

2784
01:53:29,780 --> 01:53:27,989
myself as a freelance writer instead it

2785
01:53:31,100 --> 01:53:29,790
was I wanted to talk to him about this

2786
01:53:34,490 --> 01:53:31,110
because it was the anniversary of his

2787
01:53:35,959 --> 01:53:34,500
sighting and I'm just very fortunate he

2788
01:53:37,790 --> 01:53:35,969
didn't hang up on me because that was

2789
01:53:41,060 --> 01:53:37,800
his inclination and that's when I kind

2790
01:53:43,280 --> 01:53:41,070
of segue into the whole aviation

2791
01:53:44,959 --> 01:53:43,290
enthusiasm thing and we talked aircraft

2792
01:53:48,109 --> 01:53:44,969
for a few minutes and he relaxed enough

2793
01:53:51,680 --> 01:53:48,119
to realize I was not trying to die was

2794
01:53:55,790 --> 01:53:51,690
not calling him to simply harass him or

2795
01:53:59,089 --> 01:53:55,800
to write some story that would have you

2796
01:54:00,620 --> 01:53:59,099
know been offensive to him I mean he had

2797
01:54:02,180 --> 01:54:00,630
put up with enough of that over the

2798
01:54:04,459 --> 01:54:02,190
years from different not just from the

2799
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:04,469
media but I think from the public it's

2800
01:54:09,950 --> 01:54:07,050
with any as with any celebrity I mean if

2801
01:54:11,660 --> 01:54:09,960
you if you gained some notoriety and you

2802
01:54:13,760 --> 01:54:11,670
go sit down in a restaurant or someplace

2803
01:54:15,229 --> 01:54:13,770
and I'm sure the man probably would want

2804
01:54:18,439 --> 01:54:15,239
to take his wife out every once in a

2805
01:54:19,700 --> 01:54:18,449
while and people would recognize him and

2806
01:54:21,530 --> 01:54:19,710
they'd want to talk about the Flying

2807
01:54:23,300 --> 01:54:21,540
Saucer sighting that would have been a

2808
01:54:24,530 --> 01:54:23,310
natural inclination on people that

2809
01:54:26,209 --> 01:54:24,540
surrounded him except maybe the people

2810
01:54:28,370 --> 01:54:26,219
in his immediate environment who might

2811
01:54:30,140 --> 01:54:28,380
have actually worked to protect him but

2812
01:54:31,970 --> 01:54:30,150
anybody that knew him only casually or

2813
01:54:33,859 --> 01:54:31,980
didn't know him but recognizing from

2814
01:54:34,580 --> 01:54:33,869
photos would have would have hounded the

2815
01:54:36,440 --> 01:54:34,590
guy

2816
01:54:38,540 --> 01:54:36,450
so yeah I'm sure he was he would have

2817
01:54:40,790 --> 01:54:38,550
been burned out by it what was kind of

2818
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:40,800
funny was I think my my interview with

2819
01:54:46,970 --> 01:54:44,010
him it was published in the short

2820
01:54:49,400 --> 01:54:46,980
version first in the Lebanon Daily News

2821
01:54:51,290 --> 01:54:49,410
where I was working part time and then a

2822
01:54:54,400 --> 01:54:51,300
longer version ended up in saga magazine

2823
01:54:58,250 --> 01:54:54,410
or sagas UFO report once that came out

2824
01:55:00,580 --> 01:54:58,260
then people started investigators

2825
01:55:03,500 --> 01:55:00,590
started to approach Arnold again about

2826
01:55:05,150 --> 01:55:03,510
about his story and about going to

2827
01:55:06,500 --> 01:55:05,160
conventions and I believe if I'm if I

2828
01:55:08,750 --> 01:55:06,510
remember correctly it was a couple of

2829
01:55:10,430 --> 01:55:08,760
years later that he ended up becoming

2830
01:55:12,410 --> 01:55:10,440
the keynote speaker at one of the large

2831
01:55:13,790 --> 01:55:12,420
UFO conferences and Eugene you might

2832
01:55:15,560 --> 01:55:13,800
remember more that than I do

2833
01:55:17,150 --> 01:55:15,570
well this was the International UFO

2834
01:55:19,400 --> 01:55:17,160
Congress which of course is the

2835
01:55:21,350 --> 01:55:19,410
predecessor of the one that we were at

2836
01:55:23,450 --> 01:55:21,360
just a couple of weeks back Chris and I

2837
01:55:25,970 --> 01:55:23,460
so isn't that amazing we have Curt

2838
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:25,980
southerly joining gene and Chris you're

2839
01:55:35,950 --> 01:55:28,810
in America

2840
01:55:42,470 --> 01:55:39,170
we also have swag you know we have all

2841
01:55:45,020 --> 01:55:42,480
these exclusive para cast things that

2842
01:55:48,050 --> 01:55:45,030
you can buy we've got like I guess 60 or

2843
01:55:51,650 --> 01:55:48,060
so different items and entails t-shirts

2844
01:55:54,950 --> 01:55:51,660
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2845
01:55:57,260 --> 01:55:54,960
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2846
01:55:59,120 --> 01:55:57,270
tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

2847
01:56:02,360 --> 01:55:59,130
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2848
01:56:04,910 --> 01:56:02,370
women we have a para cast aluminum water

2849
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bottle all the stuff you go to store dot

2850
01:56:11,660 --> 01:56:08,970
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2851
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what makes special is that the items are

2852
01:56:16,520 --> 01:56:13,980
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2853
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2854
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2855
01:56:23,840 --> 01:56:20,820
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2856
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2857
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2858
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small up to X large a lot good stuff

2859
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that's the swag from the para cast to go

2860
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2861
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2862
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2865
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2866
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2867
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2872
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2873
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2880
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2892
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2893
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2895
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2896
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2917
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2926
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2930
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without a payment plan and without

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attorneys or going to court get the

2932
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2933
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when you call eight hundred four seven

2934
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seven nine two five six if you have debt

2935
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with the IRS credit cards student loans

2936
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or a foreclosure we can help at zero

2937
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debt in ninety days and we are the only

2938
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organization to provide written

2939
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guarantees on the results go to zero

2940
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debt guaranteed com that's zero debt

2941
01:59:32,350 --> 01:59:30,590
guaranteed calm or call now for free

2942
01:59:34,360 --> 01:59:32,360
information eight hundred four seven

2943
01:59:36,520 --> 01:59:34,370
seven nine two five six that's eight

2944
01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:36,530
hundred four seven seven nine two five

2945
01:59:43,900 --> 01:59:42,170
six we'd like to hear from you if you

2946
01:59:47,470 --> 01:59:43,910
have a comment or question about the

2947
01:59:48,779 --> 01:59:47,480
podcast send it to news at the Peres

2948
01:59:52,949 --> 01:59:48,789
cast calm

2949
01:59:55,139 --> 01:59:52,959
that's news at the para cast dot-com and

2950
01:59:58,020 --> 01:59:55,149
if you'd like to catch up on past

2951
02:00:00,809 --> 01:59:58,030
episodes we have hundreds of shows for

2952
02:00:02,459 --> 02:00:00,819
you to download direct from the para

2953
02:00:06,899 --> 02:00:02,469
cast com

2954
02:00:09,469 --> 02:00:06,909
that's the para cast dot-com or check us

2955
02:00:12,929 --> 02:00:09,479
out at iTunes

2956
02:00:15,000 --> 02:00:12,939
we have curt subtly exploring Kenneth

2957
02:00:18,809 --> 02:00:15,010
Arnold and all the strange things going

2958
02:00:22,949 --> 02:00:18,819
on in the early UFO field in the 1940s

2959
02:00:25,020 --> 02:00:22,959
and 1950s now at one time Jim Mosley

2960
02:00:27,869 --> 02:00:25,030
tried to get Kenneth Arnold to speak

2961
02:00:30,929 --> 02:00:27,879
this was at a national UFO conference

2962
02:00:33,209 --> 02:00:30,939
meeting for I think 1967 and I don't

2963
02:00:36,209 --> 02:00:33,219
agree but supposedly Arnold had moved to

2964
02:00:38,429 --> 02:00:36,219
Australia for several years at least

2965
02:00:40,770 --> 02:00:38,439
that's supposedly what they claimed is

2966
02:00:42,659 --> 02:00:40,780
that true well I'm laughing at that

2967
02:00:44,429 --> 02:00:42,669
because and I don't know if you remember

2968
02:00:46,500 --> 02:00:44,439
this but when I first started looking

2969
02:00:48,329 --> 02:00:46,510
for all I asked around it you wanted

2970
02:00:50,099 --> 02:00:48,339
people that have contacted inquiring as

2971
02:00:52,139 --> 02:00:50,109
to Arnold's whereabouts right and I'd

2972
02:00:54,359 --> 02:00:52,149
probably sent Australia that's exactly

2973
02:00:56,429 --> 02:00:54,369
what you said and I'm like what and and

2974
02:00:58,619 --> 02:00:56,439
you know I thought that doesn't sound

2975
02:01:00,270 --> 02:00:58,629
likely but you know I didn't know so I

2976
02:01:01,679 --> 02:01:00,280
made some other inquiries and people

2977
02:01:03,539 --> 02:01:01,689
were telling me that he was dead and

2978
02:01:05,609 --> 02:01:03,549
then I simply picked up the phone book

2979
02:01:06,779 --> 02:01:05,619
and I shouldn't pick up the phone book I

2980
02:01:09,989 --> 02:01:06,789
just simply picked up the telephone

2981
02:01:12,089 --> 02:01:09,999
called directory assistance for Idaho

2982
02:01:14,520 --> 02:01:12,099
and I got his phone number and he was

2983
02:01:16,559 --> 02:01:14,530
still living at the old old home and in

2984
02:01:18,000 --> 02:01:16,569
his home state of Idaho that's where the

2985
02:01:19,439 --> 02:01:18,010
conversation star in fact I think I

2986
02:01:20,489 --> 02:01:19,449
mentioned to him on the phone and said

2987
02:01:24,359 --> 02:01:20,499
you know you were supposed to be dead

2988
02:01:25,589 --> 02:01:24,369
and he started chuckling but I do

2989
02:01:27,719 --> 02:01:25,599
remember that I remember you telling

2990
02:01:29,549 --> 02:01:27,729
that he was in Australia maybe that was

2991
02:01:31,199 --> 02:01:29,559
a cover story just to get everybody off

2992
02:01:32,549 --> 02:01:31,209
his back that was your cover story

2993
02:01:38,250 --> 02:01:32,559
you're saying that you were you were

2994
02:01:40,500 --> 02:01:38,260
privy to no I wasn't I think also as a

2995
02:01:42,779 --> 02:01:40,510
matter of fact that year they try to get

2996
02:01:44,279 --> 02:01:42,789
a Ray Palmer to come to New York to go

2997
02:01:48,089 --> 02:01:44,289
to the national UFO conference and

2998
02:01:51,509 --> 02:01:48,099
understand Ray was crippled he had a

2999
02:01:54,299 --> 02:01:51,519
severe spinal condition he was basically

3000
02:01:55,919 --> 02:01:54,309
a hunchback very short very difficult

3001
02:01:57,989 --> 02:01:55,929
for him to walk I guess he could drive

3002
02:02:00,569 --> 02:01:57,999
around in the car but I know when I met

3003
02:02:02,459 --> 02:02:00,579
him in the 60s when I met Ray Palmer he

3004
02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:02,469
walked slowly and

3005
02:02:07,140 --> 02:02:04,930
you know he wasn't all that healthy and

3006
02:02:09,120 --> 02:02:07,150
he died I think about a decade later in

3007
02:02:11,490 --> 02:02:09,130
his mid to late 60s which I guess wasn't

3008
02:02:12,750 --> 02:02:11,500
unusual for that era but that's where

3009
02:02:14,610 --> 02:02:12,760
you go with Kenneth Arnold

3010
02:02:16,830 --> 02:02:14,620
so here's octave Palmer did he mention

3011
02:02:18,630 --> 02:02:16,840
anything about Kenneth only I didn't ask

3012
02:02:21,420 --> 02:02:18,640
him I only talked to Palmer a few times

3013
02:02:23,010 --> 02:02:21,430
and the thing is here with Ray Palmer

3014
02:02:23,550 --> 02:02:23,020
you don't think so much as Kenneth

3015
02:02:25,140 --> 02:02:23,560
Arnold

3016
02:02:27,240 --> 02:02:25,150
you don't think so much of Maury Island

3017
02:02:30,270 --> 02:02:27,250
or the book the coming of the saucers

3018
02:02:32,750 --> 02:02:30,280
you think about Richard shaver the guy

3019
02:02:35,490 --> 02:02:32,760
who said he'd been down there to the

3020
02:02:37,770 --> 02:02:35,500
inside the cavernous to meet the DeRose

3021
02:02:40,020 --> 02:02:37,780
and tiros and his connection all the

3022
02:02:42,240 --> 02:02:40,030
stories he told now very interesting

3023
02:02:43,650 --> 02:02:42,250
about Ray Palmer Ray Palmer of course I

3024
02:02:45,390 --> 02:02:43,660
always wondered about him he seemed

3025
02:02:48,120 --> 02:02:45,400
pretty straight pretty straight arrow

3026
02:02:51,000 --> 02:02:48,130
with me and then I met a former

3027
02:02:53,580 --> 02:02:51,010
colleague of his Otto bender famous

3028
02:02:54,900 --> 02:02:53,590
science fiction author and editor this

3029
02:02:56,970 --> 02:02:54,910
is back in the sixties and seventies

3030
02:02:58,650 --> 02:02:56,980
remember their name Yeah right and I

3031
02:02:59,910 --> 02:02:58,660
know said to me you know Palmer's a

3032
02:03:01,680 --> 02:02:59,920
really nice guy but he's just a

3033
02:03:04,260 --> 02:03:01,690
storyteller don't take anything he says

3034
02:03:06,540 --> 02:03:04,270
seriously he just says that for the sake

3035
02:03:09,030 --> 02:03:06,550
of selling magazines that his core

3036
02:03:11,160 --> 02:03:09,040
beliefs may be things that you didn't

3037
02:03:13,320 --> 02:03:11,170
know about as much as he said this is

3038
02:03:15,330 --> 02:03:13,330
what I believe he was basically just

3039
02:03:17,220 --> 02:03:15,340
writing to start the argument or the

3040
02:03:19,439 --> 02:03:17,230
debate or sell magazines and books I

3041
02:03:22,590 --> 02:03:19,449
don't know well you didn't have to make

3042
02:03:24,450 --> 02:03:22,600
too much up with the whole Mariana no he

3043
02:03:26,939 --> 02:03:24,460
didn't he just basically I take the

3044
02:03:28,950 --> 02:03:26,949
words and put him together on paper you

3045
02:03:30,390 --> 02:03:28,960
know you know the letter that Chrisman

3046
02:03:32,459 --> 02:03:30,400
sent him when he said they were harbor

3047
02:03:33,990 --> 02:03:32,469
patrolmen and it turned out there were

3048
02:03:36,510 --> 02:03:34,000
no such thing they were simply operating

3049
02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:36,520
their small Zombies craft and obviously

3050
02:03:40,890 --> 02:03:39,130
maybe who knows maybe Chrisman sense

3051
02:03:43,020 --> 02:03:40,900
that palmer was a kindred spirit and

3052
02:03:44,640 --> 02:03:43,030
insofar as spinning tall tales and he

3053
02:03:46,439 --> 02:03:44,650
heard well this is a good guy to

3054
02:03:48,180 --> 02:03:46,449
approach with this story and I can get

3055
02:03:49,770 --> 02:03:48,190
something started here but again that

3056
02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:49,780
leads back to the what was that he was

3057
02:03:53,910 --> 02:03:51,730
trying to start what was it he was

3058
02:03:56,220 --> 02:03:53,920
trying to in violation for what reason

3059
02:03:58,320 --> 02:03:56,230
Oh Palmer might have been the right

3060
02:04:00,689 --> 02:03:58,330
person at the wrong time remember this

3061
02:04:02,070 --> 02:04:00,699
is the time of fate magazine this is the

3062
02:04:03,900 --> 02:04:02,080
time where Palmer had been pretty

3063
02:04:06,180 --> 02:04:03,910
controversial in the sci-fi field

3064
02:04:08,360 --> 02:04:06,190
because a lot of the traditional people

3065
02:04:11,400 --> 02:04:08,370
in the science fiction field basically

3066
02:04:13,709 --> 02:04:11,410
hated Palmer's guts because of this

3067
02:04:14,880 --> 02:04:13,719
crazy shaver story you know I mean

3068
02:04:16,350 --> 02:04:14,890
Palmer was publishing

3069
02:04:18,540 --> 02:04:16,360
science fiction

3070
02:04:20,790 --> 02:04:18,550
stories of the era this was a magazine

3071
02:04:23,310 --> 02:04:20,800
that was the original science fiction

3072
02:04:26,910 --> 02:04:23,320
magazine founded by Hugo Gernsback in

3073
02:04:29,129 --> 02:04:26,920
the 1920s the first sci-fi magazine on

3074
02:04:30,899 --> 02:04:29,139
the planet many of the famous science

3075
02:04:34,169 --> 02:04:30,909
fiction stories originated there as I

3076
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:34,179
mentioned Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote one

3077
02:04:40,290 --> 02:04:36,730
or two of the last John Carter stories

3078
02:04:42,209 --> 02:04:40,300
four amazing stories I did not know that

3079
02:04:44,790 --> 02:04:42,219
that is very interesting it's a part of

3080
02:04:46,350 --> 02:04:44,800
history if you look at the final John

3081
02:04:49,020 --> 02:04:46,360
Carter stories which were basically

3082
02:04:50,669 --> 02:04:49,030
short novels you'd see that they

3083
02:04:52,979 --> 02:04:50,679
originally were published in amazing

3084
02:04:55,979 --> 02:04:52,989
stories and the editor at the time was

3085
02:04:58,709 --> 02:04:55,989
Ray Palmer so he had this influence and

3086
02:05:01,850 --> 02:04:58,719
this confluence of events that put him

3087
02:05:04,709 --> 02:05:01,860
in the early part of the UFO and

3088
02:05:05,640 --> 02:05:04,719
paranormal research ears very strange

3089
02:05:07,919 --> 02:05:05,650
Ray Palmer

3090
02:05:09,750 --> 02:05:07,929
almost more interesting in that sense in

3091
02:05:12,300 --> 02:05:09,760
Kenneth Arnold who was the victim

3092
02:05:14,189 --> 02:05:12,310
whereas Palmer may have been the

3093
02:05:16,680 --> 02:05:14,199
purveyor the perpetrator in some ways

3094
02:05:18,270 --> 02:05:16,690
who knows you know I think he was he was

3095
02:05:21,090 --> 02:05:18,280
the medium by which they were able to

3096
02:05:23,220 --> 02:05:21,100
perpetrate if it was a hoax and it seems

3097
02:05:25,620 --> 02:05:23,230
like it was a hoax on Maury Island well

3098
02:05:28,530 --> 02:05:25,630
nowadays I think the general opinion in

3099
02:05:30,899 --> 02:05:28,540
UFO research is that Kenneth Arnold had

3100
02:05:33,390 --> 02:05:30,909
some kind of genuine sighting whatever

3101
02:05:35,939 --> 02:05:33,400
it might have been even it was a some

3102
02:05:39,209 --> 02:05:35,949
kind of test aircraft and that Ray

3103
02:05:41,430 --> 02:05:39,219
Palmer was telling tall tales and

3104
02:05:43,620 --> 02:05:41,440
Kenneth Arnold was kind of sucked into a

3105
02:05:46,140 --> 02:05:43,630
hoax and that was it something really

3106
02:05:49,109 --> 02:05:46,150
crazy was going on Maury island but in

3107
02:05:51,300 --> 02:05:49,119
the end of the day it was a bad hoax a

3108
02:05:54,050 --> 02:05:51,310
bad hoax because two people died and

3109
02:05:56,370 --> 02:05:54,060
maybe then Edward Group health was right

3110
02:05:58,890 --> 02:05:56,380
Elaine and Palmer which wasn't right

3111
02:06:00,840 --> 02:05:58,900
maybe more than two people maybe this in

3112
02:06:02,340 --> 02:06:00,850
Pauling at the local reporter and maybe

3113
02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:02,350
his death had something to do with all

3114
02:06:07,290 --> 02:06:04,690
those two and ugly Ted Morello the UPI

3115
02:06:08,729 --> 02:06:07,300
reporter is his career kind of fell

3116
02:06:10,020 --> 02:06:08,739
apart I guess his personal life fell

3117
02:06:11,640 --> 02:06:10,030
apart for a long time after that

3118
02:06:13,979 --> 02:06:11,650
although I understand he was able to

3119
02:06:17,520 --> 02:06:13,989
kind of resurrect his career many years

3120
02:06:19,290 --> 02:06:17,530
later as a United Nations reporter of

3121
02:06:20,729 --> 02:06:19,300
all things of course we have all the

3122
02:06:23,189 --> 02:06:20,739
crazy legends over the years of

3123
02:06:25,470 --> 02:06:23,199
premature deaths as a result of being

3124
02:06:28,050 --> 02:06:25,480
involved in UFO research you know we

3125
02:06:30,030 --> 02:06:28,060
talk about for example Morris Jessup who

3126
02:06:32,370 --> 02:06:30,040
wrote a book called the case for the UFO

3127
02:06:34,620 --> 02:06:32,380
the expanding case for the UFO then

3128
02:06:37,110 --> 02:06:34,630
supposedly killed himself

3129
02:06:39,300 --> 02:06:37,120
in Florida some years later after those

3130
02:06:41,850 --> 02:06:39,310
books came out you have dr. James

3131
02:06:43,740 --> 02:06:41,860
McDonald who evidently died of natural

3132
02:06:46,380 --> 02:06:43,750
causes but some people say it's not so

3133
02:06:50,040 --> 02:06:46,390
natural and then Chris is you and I

3134
02:06:51,690 --> 02:06:50,050
remember during our recording of the

3135
02:06:53,850 --> 02:06:51,700
power cast of two weeks ago at the

3136
02:06:56,190 --> 02:06:53,860
International UFO Congress we were

3137
02:06:59,520 --> 02:06:56,200
talking about people who suffered from

3138
02:07:02,790 --> 02:06:59,530
strange cancer infections veralyn

3139
02:07:04,680 --> 02:07:02,800
cancers for no reason at the same time

3140
02:07:07,470 --> 02:07:04,690
with the only connection that they were

3141
02:07:09,060 --> 02:07:07,480
involved in UFO research you know yeah

3142
02:07:12,570 --> 02:07:09,070
I've seen several articles recently

3143
02:07:14,220 --> 02:07:12,580
about Andrew Breitbart is that his name

3144
02:07:16,500 --> 02:07:14,230
Andrew Breitbart

3145
02:07:18,840 --> 02:07:16,510
yeah sure he was a conservative

3146
02:07:22,440 --> 02:07:18,850
columnist activist mug breaking kind of

3147
02:07:23,460 --> 02:07:22,450
guy very controversial but he died young

3148
02:07:26,790 --> 02:07:23,470
but they said he had a heart condition

3149
02:07:28,380 --> 02:07:26,800
so maybe not so strange mm-hmm it's

3150
02:07:30,360 --> 02:07:28,390
interesting how people that gain a

3151
02:07:32,490 --> 02:07:30,370
certain controversial notoriety

3152
02:07:33,780 --> 02:07:32,500
especially within the UFO realm scott

3153
02:07:36,980 --> 02:07:33,790
reil go of course there's another one

3154
02:07:40,320 --> 02:07:36,990
how they have these just kind of weird

3155
02:07:43,110 --> 02:07:40,330
demises who was a small-time publisher

3156
02:07:44,550 --> 02:07:43,120
that he put out a lot of trade

3157
02:07:48,090 --> 02:07:44,560
paperbacks that mean he was a black

3158
02:07:51,740 --> 02:07:48,100
helicopters and he also reprinted keels

3159
02:07:55,950 --> 02:07:51,750
book as well for crying out a lot of his

3160
02:07:57,180 --> 02:07:55,960
novel that wasn't a novel Jim keith is

3161
02:07:59,820 --> 02:07:57,190
another one that comes to mind he

3162
02:08:01,620 --> 02:07:59,830
stumbles on going up on this coming off

3163
02:08:03,840 --> 02:08:01,630
the stage of Burning Man in his dead 2

3164
02:08:05,460 --> 02:08:03,850
days later from a weird infection or

3165
02:08:06,780 --> 02:08:05,470
something I think in the hospital this

3166
02:08:08,790 --> 02:08:06,790
is something we should explore in our

3167
02:08:11,070 --> 02:08:08,800
remaining two segments the strange

3168
02:08:14,150 --> 02:08:11,080
aftermath of people who get involved in

3169
02:08:17,430 --> 02:08:14,160
UFO research those who knew too much

3170
02:08:19,260 --> 02:08:17,440
order in the house not to coin a phrase

3171
02:08:25,570 --> 02:08:19,270
with gene and Chris we have Kurt

3172
02:08:29,810 --> 02:08:28,790
are you tired of searching for great

3173
02:08:33,020 --> 02:08:29,820
talk-radio

3174
02:08:37,310 --> 02:08:33,030
more important search in overruled we

3175
02:08:39,740 --> 02:08:37,320
are the GCM radio network graphic

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3250
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3254
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3255
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need to check out local makers dot-com

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3271
02:12:58,760 --> 02:12:56,849
because he will learn a great deal Curt

3272
02:13:01,149 --> 02:12:58,770
suddenly joining gene and Chris and the

3273
02:13:03,830 --> 02:13:01,159
power cast and we've gotten to this

3274
02:13:06,229 --> 02:13:03,840
story about people involved in UFO

3275
02:13:08,180 --> 02:13:06,239
research and they die before their time

3276
02:13:11,990 --> 02:13:08,190
for whatever reason maybe because of

3277
02:13:15,109 --> 02:13:12,000
cancer brain tumors Barney Hill how old

3278
02:13:17,209 --> 02:13:15,119
was he what 50s early 60s when he died

3279
02:13:18,500 --> 02:13:17,219
we would like maybe you can mid 50

3280
02:13:21,260 --> 02:13:18,510
something like that yeah

3281
02:13:23,419 --> 02:13:21,270
yeah he would be another one that's his

3282
02:13:25,850 --> 02:13:23,429
wife Betty I was in touch with her for

3283
02:13:27,589 --> 02:13:25,860
good many years in fact she used to feed

3284
02:13:30,770 --> 02:13:27,599
me all kinds of information during the

3285
02:13:33,350 --> 02:13:30,780
70s and early 80s about UFO activities

3286
02:13:36,080 --> 02:13:33,360
up in New Hampshire where she was still

3287
02:13:37,700 --> 02:13:36,090
living and and she had based on the

3288
02:13:39,530 --> 02:13:37,710
letters that I had received from her she

3289
02:13:42,350 --> 02:13:39,540
missed her husband up until the day she

3290
02:13:45,500 --> 02:13:42,360
died but that whole scenario with their

3291
02:13:47,149 --> 02:13:45,510
their sighting and the Fuller's book the

3292
02:13:47,390 --> 02:13:47,159
interrupted journey dealing with all of

3293
02:13:49,310 --> 02:13:47,400
it

3294
02:13:51,830 --> 02:13:49,320
I mean that that started something that

3295
02:13:54,229 --> 02:13:51,840
I think she was able to handle the whole

3296
02:13:56,510 --> 02:13:54,239
lot better than Barney was he I don't

3297
02:13:59,000 --> 02:13:56,520
think he was ever able to really come to

3298
02:14:01,189 --> 02:13:59,010
grips with what happened or what they

3299
02:14:04,220 --> 02:14:01,199
thought happened to them the the alleged

3300
02:14:06,470 --> 02:14:04,230
abduction I don't know she was my sense

3301
02:14:08,569 --> 02:14:06,480
of a Betty Hill from a couple of brief

3302
02:14:09,950 --> 02:14:08,579
on their phone conversations and from

3303
02:14:12,109 --> 02:14:09,960
the many letters that are received from

3304
02:14:15,319 --> 02:14:12,119
her was that she was a very tough-minded

3305
02:14:17,030 --> 02:14:15,329
woman and that nothing was going to push

3306
02:14:19,399 --> 02:14:17,040
her into the afterlife any sooner than

3307
02:14:20,990 --> 02:14:19,409
she needed to go but yeah her husband I

3308
02:14:22,700 --> 02:14:21,000
don't think he was I don't think he

3309
02:14:25,399 --> 02:14:22,710
could he really was able to handled it

3310
02:14:26,540 --> 02:14:25,409
in any real fashion I wouldn't be a bit

3311
02:14:27,620 --> 02:14:26,550
surprised that that didn't have

3312
02:14:30,649 --> 02:14:27,630
something to do with his early death

3313
02:14:33,260 --> 02:14:30,659
well is it emotional then all this or

3314
02:14:35,030 --> 02:14:33,270
they suffer some kind of external

3315
02:14:37,160 --> 02:14:35,040
infection yeah I think for all of these

3316
02:14:39,589 --> 02:14:37,170
people look emotional I mean it's pretty

3317
02:14:42,140 --> 02:14:39,599
pretty well-known today that with with

3318
02:14:44,479 --> 02:14:42,150
illness your state of mind has a lot to

3319
02:14:45,530 --> 02:14:44,489
do with your mettle I mean your mental

3320
02:14:48,049 --> 02:14:45,540
health has a lot to do with your

3321
02:14:49,339 --> 02:14:48,059
physical health if you have if you're in

3322
02:14:51,049 --> 02:14:49,349
poor mental health if you have a

3323
02:14:53,270 --> 02:14:51,059
negative attitude about a lot of things

3324
02:14:54,980 --> 02:14:53,280
if you just constantly were

3325
02:14:56,300 --> 02:14:54,990
things and stressing over things

3326
02:14:58,010 --> 02:14:56,310
obviously it's going to put you in the

3327
02:15:00,260 --> 02:14:58,020
poor health and it could you know can

3328
02:15:02,120 --> 02:15:00,270
simply push you into into an early death

3329
02:15:04,010 --> 02:15:02,130
I think it's wildly in a lot of cases

3330
02:15:06,860 --> 02:15:04,020
and we're kind of digressing here but

3331
02:15:09,800 --> 02:15:06,870
where you have given me a personal

3332
02:15:13,130 --> 02:15:09,810
example of my aunt and uncle and Joann

3333
02:15:15,290 --> 02:15:13,140
and uncle Ron John John Paul I should

3334
02:15:21,290 --> 02:15:15,300
say the last name is weather holds he

3335
02:15:23,300 --> 02:15:21,300
died in his mid 40s of of cancer it came

3336
02:15:24,200 --> 02:15:23,310
on very suddenly very unexpected they

3337
02:15:26,120 --> 02:15:24,210
later thought it might have had

3338
02:15:29,480 --> 02:15:26,130
something to do with radon disease in

3339
02:15:32,330 --> 02:15:29,490
the house but he died quickly and Joanne

3340
02:15:34,910 --> 02:15:32,340
within a year died as well that's not

3341
02:15:37,640 --> 02:15:34,920
uncommon that the spouse doesn't always

3342
02:15:40,370 --> 02:15:37,650
survive and we think of course of June

3343
02:15:42,560 --> 02:15:40,380
Carter Cash and Johnny Cash died within

3344
02:15:44,300 --> 02:15:42,570
months of each other yeah she she

3345
02:15:46,040 --> 02:15:44,310
literally did not want to live without

3346
02:15:47,690 --> 02:15:46,050
her husband without John Paul they were

3347
02:15:50,630 --> 02:15:47,700
that close I used to run around with him

3348
02:15:53,150 --> 02:15:50,640
a lot we good to antique places we'd go

3349
02:15:55,160 --> 02:15:53,160
to country markets that kind of thing

3350
02:15:57,050 --> 02:15:55,170
and you know and they were I wasn't that

3351
02:15:58,880 --> 02:15:57,060
much younger than they were and so we're

3352
02:16:01,460 --> 02:15:58,890
instead than me and aunt and uncle we

3353
02:16:03,980 --> 02:16:01,470
were like close friends and when he died

3354
02:16:06,500 --> 02:16:03,990
it affected me strongly and I saw how it

3355
02:16:08,270 --> 02:16:06,510
hit my aunt Joanne I mean she just tore

3356
02:16:10,790 --> 02:16:08,280
her apart and I've seen this you know

3357
02:16:12,410 --> 02:16:10,800
brought at this point in life now we've

3358
02:16:15,020 --> 02:16:12,420
had enough experiences like this that

3359
02:16:17,150 --> 02:16:15,030
you can you kind of see it and it does

3360
02:16:19,550 --> 02:16:17,160
it does say a lot about the state of the

3361
02:16:21,250 --> 02:16:19,560
mind and how it affects your physical

3362
02:16:24,830 --> 02:16:21,260
health in the case of Barney Hill I

3363
02:16:29,000 --> 02:16:24,840
really think that the this early episode

3364
02:16:31,340 --> 02:16:29,010
with this UFO abduction or whatever was

3365
02:16:33,650 --> 02:16:31,350
that really happened this affected him

3366
02:16:34,669 --> 02:16:33,660
in such a way that I think it it pushed

3367
02:16:36,589 --> 02:16:34,679
him to an early grave

3368
02:16:38,089 --> 02:16:36,599
you know I think you man probably he

3369
02:16:40,040 --> 02:16:38,099
might still be alive today had this not

3370
02:16:41,629 --> 02:16:40,050
happened it's probably almost like

3371
02:16:43,700 --> 02:16:41,639
getting bit by a scorpion

3372
02:16:45,830 --> 02:16:43,710
well we don't I get into the garage of

3373
02:16:47,419 --> 02:16:45,840
tales of that now let me let's look into

3374
02:16:48,980 --> 02:16:47,429
opinions here we're talking to you

3375
02:16:51,169 --> 02:16:48,990
mostly as a journalist here trying to

3376
02:16:54,200 --> 02:16:51,179
put pieces together trying to figure out

3377
02:16:56,200 --> 02:16:54,210
about Kenneth Arnold's experiences in

3378
02:16:59,720 --> 02:16:56,210
the UFO field about what happened

3379
02:17:01,400 --> 02:16:59,730
personally looking at all this stuff do

3380
02:17:04,839 --> 02:17:01,410
you go along with the fact that maybe

3381
02:17:06,950 --> 02:17:04,849
this friendly Chrisman character was

3382
02:17:08,390 --> 02:17:06,960
somebody in some

3383
02:17:11,240 --> 02:17:08,400
we connected with the military and

3384
02:17:13,430 --> 02:17:11,250
whether with their sanction or without

3385
02:17:15,860 --> 02:17:13,440
their sanction was doing something he

3386
02:17:17,540 --> 02:17:15,870
felt they wanted done I don't think he

3387
02:17:19,070 --> 02:17:17,550
was connected to the military I think he

3388
02:17:21,110 --> 02:17:19,080
was connected to the intelligence

3389
02:17:22,700 --> 02:17:21,120
community a big difference here I mean

3390
02:17:25,820 --> 02:17:22,710
you have yeah if you have intelligence

3391
02:17:28,549 --> 02:17:25,830
services within the military but the

3392
02:17:30,320 --> 02:17:28,559
feeling I got through through the

3393
02:17:33,610 --> 02:17:30,330
conversation with Arnold and he didn't

3394
02:17:37,040 --> 02:17:33,620
really get into that a whole lot and but

3395
02:17:39,680 --> 02:17:37,050
digging into the various records related

3396
02:17:42,140 --> 02:17:39,690
to all of this in taking a close look at

3397
02:17:44,690 --> 02:17:42,150
the principal players the feeling that I

3398
02:17:46,339 --> 02:17:44,700
have is that Fred Lee Chrisman was

3399
02:17:48,230 --> 02:17:46,349
somebody who was involved with the

3400
02:17:49,219 --> 02:17:48,240
intelligence community probably as a

3401
02:17:52,879 --> 02:17:49,229
mid-level

3402
02:17:55,160 --> 02:17:52,889
operative he was he was there pushing an

3403
02:17:57,530 --> 02:17:55,170
agenda for for whatever agency he was

3404
02:18:00,850 --> 02:17:57,540
working for maybe in the CIA the CIA was

3405
02:18:05,240 --> 02:18:00,860
was kind of an infancy at that point

3406
02:18:07,129 --> 02:18:05,250
again the big question is what was he

3407
02:18:10,280 --> 02:18:07,139
doing what was the whole point of this

3408
02:18:11,600 --> 02:18:10,290
creating this story or did he just like

3409
02:18:14,120 --> 02:18:11,610
to do this kind of thing was he just

3410
02:18:15,440 --> 02:18:14,130
kind of a nut maybe he was maybe he was

3411
02:18:17,150 --> 02:18:15,450
both maybe he was working for the

3412
02:18:19,969 --> 02:18:17,160
intelligence community who was kind of a

3413
02:18:23,060 --> 02:18:19,979
nut kind of an oddball okay maybe he was

3414
02:18:25,160 --> 02:18:23,070
maybe he was a kind of a nut maybe he

3415
02:18:27,379 --> 02:18:25,170
was both part of the intelligence

3416
02:18:31,910 --> 02:18:27,389
community and somebody that would like

3417
02:18:33,500 --> 02:18:31,920
that like to throw nonsense out of the

3418
02:18:35,089 --> 02:18:33,510
you know how didn't do the open and see

3419
02:18:37,730 --> 02:18:35,099
who would you know who would jump at it

3420
02:18:40,250 --> 02:18:37,740
he was an unofficial loose cannon then

3421
02:18:41,480 --> 02:18:40,260
yeah yeah I mean he probably was and

3422
02:18:43,310 --> 02:18:41,490
he's kind of goes back to what you were

3423
02:18:45,049 --> 02:18:43,320
saying about Richard Doty earlier you

3424
02:18:47,299 --> 02:18:45,059
know he almost seems like he fits into

3425
02:18:50,030 --> 02:18:47,309
that same mold he was kind of he was a

3426
02:18:52,190 --> 02:18:50,040
bit of a loose cannon I think I have a

3427
02:18:54,410 --> 02:18:52,200
quick question for you yeah I seem to

3428
02:18:56,330 --> 02:18:54,420
remember reading Ken Thomas's book about

3429
02:18:58,450 --> 02:18:56,340
the Morrie Island incident that I think

3430
02:19:01,490 --> 02:18:58,460
he mentions in there that Chrisman was

3431
02:19:05,629 --> 02:19:01,500
allegedly involved in some game to

3432
02:19:07,459 --> 02:19:05,639
uncover Japanese goals in the South

3433
02:19:09,410 --> 02:19:07,469
Pacific in the Philippines or someplace

3434
02:19:11,660 --> 02:19:09,420
that they thought was buried in a cavern

3435
02:19:13,700 --> 02:19:11,670
and he was somehow associated with the

3436
02:19:15,740 --> 02:19:13,710
search for that did you have any

3437
02:19:18,530 --> 02:19:15,750
information on that last next one said

3438
02:19:20,450 --> 02:19:18,540
that is that's a new one no on me I mean

3439
02:19:22,549 --> 02:19:20,460
I had not heard that story before so

3440
02:19:24,469 --> 02:19:22,559
okay run this by me again Chrisman

3441
02:19:26,900 --> 02:19:24,479
supposedly was involved in this in a

3442
02:19:29,809 --> 02:19:26,910
search for lost japanese gold in the

3443
02:19:32,059 --> 02:19:29,819
second for hidden japanese gold i know i

3444
02:19:34,009 --> 02:19:32,069
could be mistaken but it's been probably

3445
02:19:36,740 --> 02:19:34,019
seven years six years since i read the

3446
02:19:39,919 --> 02:19:36,750
book but you seem to recall yeah that

3447
02:19:42,530 --> 02:19:39,929
there was some and there's some you know

3448
02:19:44,689 --> 02:19:42,540
tantalizing hints here now that that he

3449
02:19:46,879 --> 02:19:44,699
was involved in some search effort to

3450
02:19:49,460 --> 02:19:46,889
try to recover this gold out for the

3451
02:19:51,860 --> 02:19:49,470
japanese ology oh now that definitely

3452
02:19:53,269 --> 02:19:51,870
piques my interest i'm gonna have to dig

3453
02:19:55,460 --> 02:19:53,279
into that a little bit and see if I can

3454
02:19:56,840 --> 02:19:55,470
find something out and yeah a future

3455
02:19:58,700 --> 02:19:56,850
show we can if I can come up with any

3456
02:20:00,740 --> 02:19:58,710
who can discuss it but yeah I had not

3457
02:20:02,780 --> 02:20:00,750
heard this before but again that

3458
02:20:04,700 --> 02:20:02,790
actually based on what what I know of

3459
02:20:06,979 --> 02:20:04,710
this character through these various

3460
02:20:08,809 --> 02:20:06,989
stories that sounds like something that

3461
02:20:14,090 --> 02:20:08,819
he would have been it would be involved

3462
02:20:18,320 --> 02:20:14,100
in yeah yeah but I mean who knows I mean

3463
02:20:20,420 --> 02:20:18,330
there's there's bound to be tons of the

3464
02:20:22,849 --> 02:20:20,430
sunken treasure out there and search for

3465
02:20:25,610 --> 02:20:22,859
Japanese gold and would not be all that

3466
02:20:28,280 --> 02:20:25,620
far-fetched yeah you know I'm sure the

3467
02:20:29,360 --> 02:20:28,290
I'm sure the the CIA or whatever agency

3468
02:20:31,130 --> 02:20:29,370
he might have been working for would

3469
02:20:32,929 --> 02:20:31,140
have been really happy to get their

3470
02:20:34,550 --> 02:20:32,939
hands on something like that yeah I

3471
02:20:38,599 --> 02:20:34,560
think that's probably the OSS back then

3472
02:20:41,110 --> 02:20:38,609
there's pre pre you know the National

3473
02:20:43,309 --> 02:20:41,120
Security Agency and when the ia and

3474
02:20:45,200 --> 02:20:43,319
Division of Army Air Force and the Air

3475
02:20:47,719 --> 02:20:45,210
Force when did this suppose me take

3476
02:20:50,360 --> 02:20:47,729
place around 49 or something I'm not

3477
02:20:54,920 --> 02:20:50,370
sure I don't remember if it was before I

3478
02:20:57,889 --> 02:20:54,930
think it may have been just before 46

3479
02:20:59,719 --> 02:20:57,899
maybe or it could have been just after

3480
02:21:02,240 --> 02:20:59,729
I'm not sure again had be done a little

3481
02:21:06,139 --> 02:21:02,250
fuzzy on the details I have to drag out

3482
02:21:08,809 --> 02:21:06,149
and dust off my copy of of Ken's book

3483
02:21:10,700 --> 02:21:08,819
but he did a a pretty interesting job

3484
02:21:12,439 --> 02:21:10,710
trying to get more background

3485
02:21:14,540 --> 02:21:12,449
information on he's quite the shadowy

3486
02:21:16,700 --> 02:21:14,550
characters no no question about it do we

3487
02:21:19,189 --> 02:21:16,710
know what happened to him what how did

3488
02:21:21,349 --> 02:21:19,199
he finally die what what did he do in

3489
02:21:25,580 --> 02:21:21,359
the 60s and 70s you have any indications

3490
02:21:27,260 --> 02:21:25,590
uh yeah yeah you see really they give my

3491
02:21:30,349 --> 02:21:27,270
own notes but your stature I mean let's

3492
02:21:32,000 --> 02:21:30,359
see what I do seem there is that's

3493
02:21:34,870 --> 02:21:32,010
something Donna thar have something down

3494
02:21:38,180 --> 02:21:34,880
here about his his final demise

3495
02:21:41,080 --> 02:21:38,190
that's we speak southerly and showing

3496
02:21:43,490 --> 02:21:41,090
you what spontaneous radio is all about

3497
02:21:46,790 --> 02:21:43,500
Curt came here with all his notes

3498
02:21:48,590 --> 02:21:46,800
probably packed in his living room or

3499
02:21:50,840 --> 02:21:48,600
his bedroom there at his home and I'm

3500
02:21:52,790 --> 02:21:50,850
secret location floor with notes all

3501
02:21:59,240 --> 02:21:52,800
surrounding me okay though

3502
02:22:02,630 --> 02:21:59,250
and okay he died in 1975 supposedly of

3503
02:22:04,520 --> 02:22:02,640
natural causes and that's as much as I

3504
02:22:06,770 --> 02:22:04,530
was able to dig up on that so what they

3505
02:22:08,511 --> 02:22:06,780
mean by natural causes I mean did you

3506
02:22:11,810 --> 02:22:08,521
just die of old age did he die of cancer

3507
02:22:14,090 --> 02:22:11,820
or how old was he he had to have been

3508
02:22:16,070 --> 02:22:14,100
I'd say he's 80 used by that time oh he

3509
02:22:17,960 --> 02:22:16,080
was an old codger we've got Curt

3510
02:22:20,330 --> 02:22:17,970
southerly who's not an old codger at

3511
02:22:25,840 --> 02:22:20,340
least not yet with gene and Chris you're

3512
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3537
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3540
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3541
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3542
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a victim of

3543
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3548
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3549
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was paid off already maybe like me

3550
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3551
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the closing and maybe like me you will

3552
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3553
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3554
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last 10 years violated consumer credit

3555
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3556
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3559
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3560
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3561
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eight five five three seven three 49 48

3562
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that's one eight five five three seven

3563
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three 49 48 that's what it sounds like

3564
02:24:45,730 --> 02:24:43,880
when a burglar kicks in the door of a

3565
02:24:47,860 --> 02:24:45,740
dark house that looks like no one is

3566
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home don't let your home be the next

3567
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target make it look like someone is home

3568
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watching television with fake TV fake TV

3569
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is a small electronic device that makes

3570
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the same light as a real television so

3571
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from outside it looks like someone is

3572
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home watching TV fake TV plugs in just

3573
02:25:03,490 --> 02:25:01,820
like a lamp on a timer

3574
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but as far more convincing to burglars

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than an alarm and is highly recommended

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3586
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3611
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there's just a wrong plaque laughter of

3612
02:26:52,170 --> 02:26:48,220
the awful encyclopedia other books when

3613
02:26:53,790 --> 02:26:52,180
you're listening to the parent cap we

3614
02:26:55,860 --> 02:26:53,800
have Kurt's awfully for another segment

3615
02:26:58,440 --> 02:26:55,870
on the power casas gene and Chris we're

3616
02:27:00,000 --> 02:26:58,450
talking about Fred Lee Chrisman and as

3617
02:27:01,980 --> 02:27:00,010
you mentioned Chrisman must have been

3618
02:27:05,910 --> 02:27:01,990
one in his 60s when Maury island

3619
02:27:07,200 --> 02:27:05,920
occurred hmm probably might have been a

3620
02:27:09,660 --> 02:27:07,210
little younger I'd say probably needs

3621
02:27:12,570 --> 02:27:09,670
50s late 40s early 50s when that

3622
02:27:14,190 --> 02:27:12,580
occurred and you know what not I think

3623
02:27:16,950 --> 02:27:14,200
about it Arnold never read did give any

3624
02:27:19,260 --> 02:27:16,960
indication of his age I got the feeling

3625
02:27:21,570 --> 02:27:19,270
that Dahl was probably a fair amount

3626
02:27:23,460 --> 02:27:21,580
younger than Chrisman and he described

3627
02:27:25,350 --> 02:27:23,470
dull as being kind of like 6 -

3628
02:27:26,760 --> 02:27:25,360
lumberjack build kind of a strapping

3629
02:27:28,920 --> 02:27:26,770
guys he gets a sense that he might have

3630
02:27:31,110 --> 02:27:28,930
been like in his late 20s early 30s in

3631
02:27:34,020 --> 02:27:31,120
Chrisman and good 10 or 15 years older

3632
02:27:36,420 --> 02:27:34,030
so I'm not sure if Kurt's aware of this

3633
02:27:41,190 --> 02:27:36,430
but my my father was in the Coast Guard

3634
02:27:42,600 --> 02:27:41,200
in Puget Sound in 46 and 47 and I

3635
02:27:44,840 --> 02:27:42,610
remember a couple of times when we were

3636
02:27:46,830 --> 02:27:44,850
kids he would be told this story

3637
02:27:49,410 --> 02:27:46,840
remember one time in particular around

3638
02:27:52,940 --> 02:27:49,420
the dinner table scene getting a new

3639
02:27:54,990 --> 02:27:52,950
radar unit on there cutter and and

3640
02:27:56,790 --> 02:27:55,000
detecting objects that seem to be going

3641
02:28:00,060 --> 02:27:56,800
in and out of Puget Sound at hypersonic

3642
02:28:01,830 --> 02:28:00,070
speed and later on after I got more

3643
02:28:04,110 --> 02:28:01,840
involved in this whole field

3644
02:28:05,969 --> 02:28:04,120
I remember bouncing that question often

3645
02:28:07,290 --> 02:28:05,979
and askin and hey do you remember when

3646
02:28:11,400 --> 02:28:07,300
you told us that story and he totally

3647
02:28:15,320 --> 02:28:11,410
denied it he actually got kind of

3648
02:28:18,630 --> 02:28:15,330
nervous is that mom I never talked bad

3649
02:28:20,460 --> 02:28:18,640
so he was he was saying that the objects

3650
02:28:22,110 --> 02:28:20,470
were diving into the future they were

3651
02:28:24,240 --> 02:28:22,120
going in and out of Puget Sound in the

3652
02:28:26,010 --> 02:28:24,250
state - Juan de Fuca yeah well you know

3653
02:28:28,260 --> 02:28:26,020
that's that's not unheard of in the

3654
02:28:31,500 --> 02:28:28,270
annals of UFO history either I mean he I

3655
02:28:34,890 --> 02:28:31,510
didn't say yeah hold on undersea you

3656
02:28:36,750 --> 02:28:34,900
know flying objects and I mean yeah you

3657
02:28:38,490 --> 02:28:36,760
have you have that kind of story

3658
02:28:41,280 --> 02:28:38,500
surfacing all the time of people seeing

3659
02:28:44,310 --> 02:28:41,290
things and discs in various objects that

3660
02:28:45,780 --> 02:28:44,320
would simply die beneath the surface of

3661
02:28:48,990 --> 02:28:45,790
the ocean at some place and maybe dive

3662
02:28:51,120 --> 02:28:49,000
into a harbor and not be seen again or

3663
02:28:52,110 --> 02:28:51,130
maybe they would simply track them I

3664
02:28:54,870 --> 02:28:52,120
guess there were a number of cases

3665
02:28:57,081 --> 02:28:54,880
keela's who ascended this he would he

3666
02:29:00,131 --> 02:28:57,091
dug in a number of stories were

3667
02:29:02,390 --> 02:29:00,141
various navies I believe the over in

3668
02:29:04,911 --> 02:29:02,400
Scandinavia and maybe over there was

3669
02:29:06,470 --> 02:29:04,921
constantly tracking strange suburbs

3670
02:29:08,871 --> 02:29:06,480
emerged objects moving at high speed

3671
02:29:09,801 --> 02:29:08,881
with sonar and they would pursue that if

3672
02:29:11,961 --> 02:29:09,811
they thought they were these were

3673
02:29:14,270 --> 02:29:11,971
Russian submarines but they never could

3674
02:29:16,161 --> 02:29:14,280
prove it but in many cases these objects

3675
02:29:20,390 --> 02:29:16,171
were going too fast to be Russian

3676
02:29:21,711 --> 02:29:20,400
submarines and our Navy has has they're

3677
02:29:23,270 --> 02:29:21,721
not going to be quick to admitted but

3678
02:29:25,911 --> 02:29:23,280
there been cases where they've tracked

3679
02:29:31,011 --> 02:29:25,921
various submersible as well that are

3680
02:29:33,320 --> 02:29:31,021
moving at high speed so I don't know it

3681
02:29:34,761 --> 02:29:33,330
you can you start pulling one in one

3682
02:29:36,291 --> 02:29:34,771
thread and all kinds of other things

3683
02:29:39,501 --> 02:29:36,301
start unraveling and you've got this

3684
02:29:41,871 --> 02:29:39,511
whole mess of strange mysteries and you

3685
02:29:44,121 --> 02:29:41,881
have to wonder in those days what

3686
02:29:45,921 --> 02:29:44,131
percentage of UFO cases were really

3687
02:29:48,440 --> 02:29:45,931
caused by some kind of government

3688
02:29:50,810 --> 02:29:48,450
experiment you talk about back in the

3689
02:29:53,961 --> 02:29:50,820
40s definitely back in the 40s and early

3690
02:29:57,230 --> 02:29:53,971
50s when so many things were being tried

3691
02:30:00,171 --> 02:29:57,240
as they say either either the things

3692
02:30:02,621 --> 02:30:00,181
were being tried or the the fact that we

3693
02:30:05,451 --> 02:30:02,631
were trying things such as earlier

3694
02:30:07,581 --> 02:30:05,461
atomic tests was attracting attention

3695
02:30:09,501 --> 02:30:07,591
from somewhere I mean we you know we

3696
02:30:10,940 --> 02:30:09,511
talked about all this and now I'm kind

3697
02:30:13,220 --> 02:30:10,950
of guilty of this too I didn't tend to

3698
02:30:16,371 --> 02:30:13,230
be fairly pragmatic despite my interest

3699
02:30:18,951 --> 02:30:16,381
in all this stuff and and I look at this

3700
02:30:20,301 --> 02:30:18,961
and I think there's a rational

3701
02:30:22,190 --> 02:30:20,311
explanation for most unexplained

3702
02:30:24,650 --> 02:30:22,200
phenomena when you get to the bottom of

3703
02:30:26,751 --> 02:30:24,660
it in some cases there is no rational

3704
02:30:29,180 --> 02:30:26,761
explanation other than to assume or to

3705
02:30:30,491 --> 02:30:29,190
come to the conclusion that we're

3706
02:30:33,081 --> 02:30:30,501
dealing with something that's either

3707
02:30:34,820 --> 02:30:33,091
extra dimensional or extraterrestrial

3708
02:30:37,491 --> 02:30:34,830
and interest as I think could be

3709
02:30:40,161 --> 02:30:37,501
business with the green fireballs in the

3710
02:30:43,371 --> 02:30:40,171
southwest in 1947 they had their months

3711
02:30:45,591 --> 02:30:43,381
that went by actually of 1947-48 I think

3712
02:30:48,110 --> 02:30:45,601
he all the way into 49 when they the

3713
02:30:50,890 --> 02:30:48,120
military set up what they called Project

3714
02:30:53,001 --> 02:30:50,900
twinkle and they were attempting to

3715
02:30:54,911 --> 02:30:53,011
photograph these objects but they were

3716
02:30:58,041 --> 02:30:54,921
never ever having a lot of luck because

3717
02:31:00,650 --> 02:30:58,051
they'd see these strange brilliant green

3718
02:31:03,020 --> 02:31:00,660
meteors in one location they set up

3719
02:31:04,581 --> 02:31:03,030
their scopes and these objects would

3720
02:31:07,310 --> 02:31:04,591
stop preparing in that location and

3721
02:31:09,860 --> 02:31:07,320
start appearing somewhere else and you

3722
02:31:10,970 --> 02:31:09,870
get the feeling because of the location

3723
02:31:13,730 --> 02:31:10,980
because of the

3724
02:31:15,950 --> 02:31:13,740
so many of these objects with some of

3725
02:31:17,960 --> 02:31:15,960
the nuclear testing that was going on at

3726
02:31:20,570 --> 02:31:17,970
the time that they were these were

3727
02:31:21,341 --> 02:31:20,580
objects that were curious about what we

3728
02:31:25,091 --> 02:31:21,351
were doing

3729
02:31:28,341 --> 02:31:25,101
Klaatu was coming here from wherever

3730
02:31:30,410 --> 02:31:28,351
exactly except he didn't land on the

3731
02:31:31,761 --> 02:31:30,420
White House lawn or in you know in

3732
02:31:33,440 --> 02:31:31,771
Central Park or River Boys he was

3733
02:31:35,150 --> 02:31:33,450
supposed to have landed he just you know

3734
02:31:38,421 --> 02:31:35,160
he was just simply flying over and

3735
02:31:41,000 --> 02:31:38,431
checking things at home but in course ed

3736
02:31:43,551 --> 02:31:41,010
there's also the idea that when we

3737
02:31:46,970 --> 02:31:43,561
started to set off atomic tests did we

3738
02:31:49,190 --> 02:31:46,980
create a rift did we fracture some sort

3739
02:31:52,220 --> 02:31:49,200
of a barrier that allowed things to come

3740
02:31:54,020 --> 02:31:52,230
and go you know maybe I don't know it

3741
02:31:56,150 --> 02:31:54,030
you can speculate all day and all night

3742
02:31:59,540 --> 02:31:56,160
about these things and you're kind of

3743
02:32:01,460 --> 02:31:59,550
left you know with with an empty sheet

3744
02:32:03,020 --> 02:32:01,470
of paper in your lab and that may be the

3745
02:32:05,960 --> 02:32:03,030
other question asked here what are we

3746
02:32:09,381 --> 02:32:05,970
left with the life story of Kenneth

3747
02:32:12,350 --> 02:32:09,391
Arnold who got himself accidentally into

3748
02:32:15,080 --> 02:32:12,360
the UFO mystery because he reported what

3749
02:32:16,310 --> 02:32:15,090
he saw and maybe if he shut up we

3750
02:32:18,620 --> 02:32:16,320
wouldn't hear about it in the same way

3751
02:32:22,040 --> 02:32:18,630
maybe look at it that way if Kenneth

3752
02:32:25,070 --> 02:32:22,050
Arnold had never said I saw something

3753
02:32:27,230 --> 02:32:25,080
strange with the UFO mystery have gotten

3754
02:32:28,580 --> 02:32:27,240
so much attention I think it would have

3755
02:32:31,960 --> 02:32:28,590
I think it would have taken off with

3756
02:32:36,261 --> 02:32:31,970
somebody else but it as it happened he

3757
02:32:39,560 --> 02:32:36,271
was he was the person that first brought

3758
02:32:41,421 --> 02:32:39,570
it to the public attention and it was

3759
02:32:44,450 --> 02:32:41,431
just it was circumstance I mean he

3760
02:32:45,860 --> 02:32:44,460
happened to see this maybe maybe

3761
02:32:48,890 --> 02:32:45,870
somebody else had the same sighting

3762
02:32:51,230 --> 02:32:48,900
maybe the people he mentioned in in his

3763
02:32:54,801 --> 02:32:51,240
report that there had been an airliner

3764
02:32:57,051 --> 02:32:54,811
flying five or six miles behind him to

3765
02:32:58,671 --> 02:32:57,061
an obvious port wing the objects were

3766
02:33:00,591 --> 02:32:58,681
also in the port side meaning left side

3767
02:33:02,870 --> 02:33:00,601
of the aircraft maybe the people in that

3768
02:33:04,610 --> 02:33:02,880
airliner saw it as well but they didn't

3769
02:33:06,110 --> 02:33:04,620
report it it could have happened the

3770
02:33:07,370 --> 02:33:06,120
other way it could have been him like

3771
02:33:09,290 --> 02:33:07,380
you said that kept his mouth shut or

3772
02:33:11,240 --> 02:33:09,300
maybe the pilot of that airliner might

3773
02:33:12,200 --> 02:33:11,250
have reported the sighting and this

3774
02:33:14,500 --> 02:33:12,210
whole thing would have taken on a

3775
02:33:16,881 --> 02:33:14,510
different an entirely different tone

3776
02:33:19,310 --> 02:33:16,891
nobody would have reported this thing at

3777
02:33:22,580 --> 02:33:19,320
all exactly I mean they might have all

3778
02:33:24,620 --> 02:33:22,590
kept quiet but again then you had he had

3779
02:33:26,360 --> 02:33:24,630
Smith on July 4th reporting

3780
02:33:27,889 --> 02:33:26,370
sighting but I believe that he and his

3781
02:33:30,710 --> 02:33:27,899
co-pilot I think the guys name was

3782
02:33:33,950 --> 02:33:30,720
Wendell Stevens they only reported it

3783
02:33:35,900 --> 02:33:33,960
because Arnold had already come forward

3784
02:33:38,030 --> 02:33:35,910
with his report so that he opened the

3785
02:33:42,590 --> 02:33:38,040
door he's the big door opener for all

3786
02:33:45,110 --> 02:33:42,600
this stuff that he made it acceptable to

3787
02:33:47,750 --> 02:33:45,120
see strange things and report those

3788
02:33:50,780 --> 02:33:47,760
strange things and maybe not be laughed

3789
02:33:52,310 --> 02:33:50,790
at or not be laughed at so severely and

3790
02:33:54,190 --> 02:33:52,320
you know his report today is still

3791
02:33:57,560 --> 02:33:54,200
officially classified as unexplained

3792
02:33:59,840 --> 02:33:57,570
nothing by the military that is it's

3793
02:34:01,250 --> 02:33:59,850
never never tried to close the door on

3794
02:34:03,980 --> 02:34:01,260
that they've never tried I didn't know

3795
02:34:06,350 --> 02:34:03,990
that you know yeah it is still only

3796
02:34:07,310 --> 02:34:06,360
unexplained they've never tried to come

3797
02:34:10,790 --> 02:34:07,320
up with some kind of a cock-and-bull

3798
02:34:11,210 --> 02:34:10,800
story about you know about this guy I'm

3799
02:34:15,679 --> 02:34:11,220
seeing

3800
02:34:18,620 --> 02:34:15,689
you said earlier about about about the

3801
02:34:20,060 --> 02:34:18,630
report of him supposedly having seen a

3802
02:34:22,490 --> 02:34:20,070
mirage or them trying to make it sound

3803
02:34:23,810 --> 02:34:22,500
like he saw a mirage I had never heard

3804
02:34:25,100 --> 02:34:23,820
this before because I know that the

3805
02:34:27,170 --> 02:34:25,110
report is still considered on

3806
02:34:29,660 --> 02:34:27,180
unexplained that's something thrown into

3807
02:34:31,670 --> 02:34:29,670
the Wikipedia entry and of course lots

3808
02:34:33,260 --> 02:34:31,680
of people can edit those things now in

3809
02:34:35,710 --> 02:34:33,270
terms of Maury island isn't that

3810
02:34:38,960 --> 02:34:35,720
officially regarded as a hoax though I

3811
02:34:40,880 --> 02:34:38,970
think the the official FBI report on him

3812
02:34:42,950 --> 02:34:40,890
was that that this was a hoax and that

3813
02:34:45,950 --> 02:34:42,960
the end of the players in this case

3814
02:34:48,620 --> 02:34:45,960
Chrisman and Dahl were perpetrating some

3815
02:34:51,530 --> 02:34:48,630
kind of a hoax and that Arnold in Smith

3816
02:34:55,880 --> 02:34:51,540
and indirectly Ray Palmer were just

3817
02:34:57,350 --> 02:34:55,890
caught up in this hoax they the writer I

3818
02:34:59,330 --> 02:34:57,360
can't remember the name of the field of

3819
02:35:01,520 --> 02:34:59,340
inacol agent who wrote the report at the

3820
02:35:02,570 --> 02:35:01,530
time when it was initially released when

3821
02:35:05,990 --> 02:35:02,580
it was released on the Freedom of

3822
02:35:08,120 --> 02:35:06,000
Information Act it was redacted it was

3823
02:35:11,150 --> 02:35:08,130
edited and I had to literally fill in

3824
02:35:12,800 --> 02:35:11,160
the blanks to put the names of the

3825
02:35:14,840 --> 02:35:12,810
principal players and I simply be able

3826
02:35:16,969 --> 02:35:14,850
to count spaces to do that you know if

3827
02:35:18,410 --> 02:35:16,979
it was fredchristman you know simply

3828
02:35:20,330 --> 02:35:18,420
counted the spaces out yeah that's it

3829
02:35:21,560 --> 02:35:20,340
and if you did all made sense when I was

3830
02:35:23,270 --> 02:35:21,570
done with it then I guess the whole

3831
02:35:25,670 --> 02:35:23,280
reporters out there for anybody to read

3832
02:35:27,830 --> 02:35:25,680
in its entirety now let's look at what

3833
02:35:29,320 --> 02:35:27,840
you're doing okay you wrote the book UFO

3834
02:35:32,450 --> 02:35:29,330
mysteries a reporter seeks the truth

3835
02:35:35,960 --> 02:35:32,460
back about 2001 what are you doing these

3836
02:35:37,940 --> 02:35:35,970
days what am i doing these days I'm

3837
02:35:39,980 --> 02:35:37,950
talking to you on on

3838
02:35:45,980 --> 02:35:39,990
so that you can broadcast this to your

3839
02:35:47,929 --> 02:35:45,990
listeners all over the world okay you're

3840
02:35:50,030 --> 02:35:47,939
still at it more or less although no new

3841
02:35:51,500 --> 02:35:50,040
books on UFOs are in your horizon you've

3842
02:35:53,750 --> 02:35:51,510
got of course science fiction story

3843
02:35:56,420 --> 02:35:53,760
you're working on yeah I've been working

3844
02:35:59,390 --> 02:35:56,430
on a novel for several years now and I'm

3845
02:36:01,520 --> 02:35:59,400
getting better at it I've had to refine

3846
02:36:03,200 --> 02:36:01,530
my technique one thing I discovered and

3847
02:36:05,920 --> 02:36:03,210
I'm sure you need to understand this is

3848
02:36:09,860 --> 02:36:05,930
that you know I was a journalist for

3849
02:36:12,080 --> 02:36:09,870
many many years and journalism became

3850
02:36:13,520 --> 02:36:12,090
second nature to me yeah what fiction is

3851
02:36:15,170 --> 02:36:13,530
something that's a different world

3852
02:36:17,510 --> 02:36:15,180
because I've done that actually and I've

3853
02:36:20,150 --> 02:36:17,520
lived in that world of course our friend

3854
02:36:22,880 --> 02:36:20,160
Chris O'Brien has a site called our

3855
02:36:24,500 --> 02:36:22,890
strange planet our strange planet calm

3856
02:36:27,080 --> 02:36:24,510
and I think finally we're going to start

3857
02:36:28,280 --> 02:36:27,090
revising that site Chris right yep by

3858
02:36:30,140 --> 02:36:28,290
the way there are lots of ways to

3859
02:36:32,360 --> 02:36:30,150
contact us here at the power cast you

3860
02:36:35,120 --> 02:36:32,370
can write us news at the power cast com

3861
02:36:37,670 --> 02:36:35,130
that's news at the parent cast com you

3862
02:36:40,190 --> 02:36:37,680
can send us a tweet the power cast what

3863
02:36:42,440 --> 02:36:40,200
else can we be the power casts on

3864
02:36:44,420 --> 02:36:42,450
twitter curt southerly thanks for

3865
02:36:46,520 --> 02:36:44,430
joining us this week on the power cast

3866
02:36:54,910 --> 02:36:46,530
thank you for having me gene it's been

3867
02:37:01,310 --> 02:36:58,400
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3868
02:37:04,330 --> 02:37:01,320
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3869
02:37:08,240 --> 02:37:04,340
presentation of making the impossible